My dumb idea that involves a 12 gauge

[Dice]

Take one of these
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Add a $200 tax stamp to make it an AOW. Then add one of these
View attachment 5685811
Chop the bit of barrel down that extends past the magazine tube, clean it up, dab a little cold blue on it, then move that bead back onto the barrel.

Then add a sling of some kind that attaches to the bottom of the Hogue grip and the end of the magazine tube. To shoot the gun, press forward on both the forend and the pistol grip with the sling offering resistance. That way when you fire the gun you're already pushing forward to counteract the recoil.

Thoughts?

I agree with your first statement. That being "my dumb idea that involves a 12 gauge" What you have before modification is a 12 gauge with a raptor grip that kicks but won't break your wrist and modifying it so as to sprain or even break your wrist with the pistol grip. But I've had dumb ideas before myself so I'm not disrespecting you for your dumb idea. In fact I'm just agreeing with you about the dumbness of your idea. I have a 50 bmg that I'm considering putting a headband on the butt stock so I can fire it from my forehead instead of kicking the crap out of my shoulder......Thoughts?

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Also, if you're considering even 4+1 to be rounds limited then are you just arguing against shotguns in general rather than this specific concept I'm presenting?

Yes.

People can and have concealed shockwave-style firearms to great effect before. I've heard that a shotgun in basically what is today considered the shockwave-format was once used by Witness Protection. I've heard rumors of air-marshals having a similar experience. So long as you have some way to actually conceal the shotgun and you have the technique down to aim it accurately at close distances then you're much more armed with a small shotgun than a pistol. If I found myself in a situation where I needed to defend myself from someone at close range and I could either have a pistol magically appear in my hands or one of these small shotguns appear in my hands then I'd certainly rather have the shotgun.

I know three air marshals. I can assure you that they are NOT taking 12ga shotguns onto a commercial airplane.

The shotgun shines in certain scenarios but making it small enough to be concealed and then trying to fire it from a single point sling is not one of them.

 

[Shotgun Surgery]

I agree with your first statement. That being "my dumb idea that involves a 12 gauge" What you have before modification is a 12 gauge with a raptor grip that kicks but won't break your wrist and modifying it so as to sprain or even break your wrist with the pistol grip. But I've had dumb ideas before myself so I'm not disrespecting you for your dumb idea. In fact I'm just agreeing with you about the dumbness of your idea. I have a 50 bmg that I'm considering putting a headband on the butt stock so I can fire it from my forehead instead of kicking the crap out of my shoulder......Thoughts?

So you think that a PGO shotgun will break wrists? You do know that PGO shotguns have been sold for decades, right? They have the reputation of being uncomfortable to shoot, but not to literally break wrists. Also, most people who shoot PGO shotguns are doing so with poor technique to say the least. Just applying a simple push-pull technique, something most people don't do, should make a noticeable difference. What I'm suggesting is going even further than that. I don't know if it will work because I have yet to try it, but the sling-push technique should considerably cut down on the discomfort.

 

[Shotgun Surgery]

Yes.


I know three air marshals. I can assure you that they are NOT taking 12ga shotguns onto a commercial airplane.

The shotgun shines in certain scenarios but making it small enough to be concealed and then trying to fire it from a single point sling is not one of them.

All I said about air marshals is that I've heard that some have used witness-protection style shotguns before.

Hypothetically, if a compact shotgun could be aimed as quickly and accurately as a stocked shotgun then it would be just as effective in terms of close quarters combat. Traditionally, compact shotguns have been considered to be much more difficult to shoot accurately and at speed. What I'm proposing is that there might be some kind of technique which would make a PGO shotgun about as easy to fire quickly and accurately as a stocked shotgun, at least in terms of close quarters combat. If such technique exists and it can be employed on a shotgun small enough to be concealed then I don't see what the issue would be.

 

[Ken Ford]

Try it, I don’t think it would be for me, but it’s your idea. I hope it fits your needs, or at least makes you giggle just a little when you shoot it.
Those that are making light of your ideas are…

 

[Dice]

So you think that a PGO shotgun will break wrists? You do know that PGO shotguns have been sold for decades, right? They have the reputation of being uncomfortable to shoot, but not to literally break wrists. Also, most people who shoot PGO shotguns are doing so with poor technique to say the least. Just applying a simple push-pull technique, something most people don't do, should make a noticeable difference. What I'm suggesting is going even further than that. I don't know if it will work because I have yet to try it, but the sling-push technique should considerably cut down on the discomfort.

honestly my friend, I don't know what a PGO shotgun IS. I do know I sprained my wrist shooting my mossberg 500 with the pistol grip. I removed that grip and put on a raptor grip and can shoot it now without any wrist damage. I might even own a PGO and don't know it. I had a Pontiac GTO back in the late 60's and don't know what GTO stood for either.

 

[steviesterno]

honestly my friend, I don't know what a PGO shotgun IS. I do know I sprained my wrist shooting my mossberg 500 with the pistol grip. I removed that grip and put on a raptor grip and can shoot it now without any wrist damage. I might even own a PGO and don't know it. I had a Pontiac GTO back in the late 60's and don't know what GTO stood for either.

PGO is “Pistol Grip Only”

No stock

 

[rhaney02]

honestly my friend, I don't know what a PGO shotgun IS. I do know I sprained my wrist shooting my mossberg 500 with the pistol grip. I removed that grip and put on a raptor grip and can shoot it now without any wrist damage. I might even own a PGO and don't know it. I had a Pontiac GTO back in the late 60's and don't know what GTO stood for either.

GTO stood for "Get the Tools Out"....

 

[steviesterno]

For an autoloading gun, regaining the sight picture quickly inbetween shots would certainly be an issue. However, this is a pump gun. After each shot I'm going to have to pump the gun anyways which will itself disturb the sight picture. I think the technique would be push and shoot then pump, push and shoot then pump, etc.

Also, if you're considering even 4+1 to be rounds limited then are you just arguing against shotguns in general rather than this specific concept I'm presenting? I'd be weary of getting too focused on numbers on paper. Compare 10 chickens and 2 semi-trucks. 10 is 5 times bigger than 2, but 2 semi-trucks is a lot more mass than 10 chickens. 5 shells of 12 gauge may numerically be fewer rounds than other conventional firearms, but those 5 shots being 12 gauge means it's a lot of firepower. I've heard it said that a shotgun which holds 5 shells is a 5 badguy gun. Unlike rifles and especially pistols, if you get a shot of 12 gauge buck or slugs on someone's torso at close range then they're almost certainly out of the fight if not dead on the spot. Compare that to a 9mm where maybe you take someone out in one shot, or maybe you don't take them out even after 30 shots.

People can and have concealed shockwave-style firearms to great effect before. I've heard that a shotgun in basically what is today considered the shockwave-format was once used by Witness Protection. I've heard rumors of air-marshals having a similar experience. So long as you have some way to actually conceal the shotgun and you have the technique down to aim it accurately at close distances then you're much more armed with a small shotgun than a pistol. If I found myself in a situation where I needed to defend myself from someone at close range and I could either have a pistol magically appear in my hands or one of these small shotguns appear in my hands then I'd certainly rather have the shotgun.

here's how you conceal a shotgun...

shotguns have been putting people in the dirt for probably longer than any other kind of firearm. Hell people were stuffing muskets and cannons with nails and small chunks of metal for the better part of the last 500 years, pretty much since gunpowder was invented.

It's certainly got more power than a pistol round, and that comes at the expense of size, recoil, and decreased capacity. However it's not the magical street sweeper many claim it to be. You still need to aim it, and with an 18" barrel and cylinder choke you get about an inch of spread for every yard of distance. So at "across the room" distances you're still only making 4" of spread, so you need to aim and get rounds on target. If you do get a whole load of 00 buck on target, each pellet has about the speed and size of a 380acp round. Many people carry a ruger LCP and really each shotgun shot is like getting hit with a whole magazine from one at the same time.

The reason I don't use a shotgun for HD is that I have young kids and live in the suburbs. I need to know and be responsible for each single part of a round coming out of one of my guns. I can have an issue and need to shoot at up to 100 yards, and a spread that big (with dramatic loss in ballistics at distance) is the reason I've elected to choose what I did.

Plus I have a ton of time behind shotguns, having shot clays, skeet, trap, and 3gun for years I'm comfortable with it. I'm still MORE comfortable with a rifle.

 

[BIKER13]

Bathroom gun maybe?

what about the 38 5 shot snub hanging around my neck on a string? doesnt that qualify?