My dumb idea that involves a 12 gauge

[steviesterno]

I have an SBS 870 with that grip. You are welcome to try it and see if you still want to do it.

The cheaper version is buy a 500/870 with 18” barrel. Then you can slap that Pistol Grip on there tax free.

 

[Shotgun Surgery]

I have an SBS 870 with that grip. You are welcome to try it and see if you still want to do it.

The cheaper version is buy a 500/870 with 18” barrel. Then you can slap that Pistol Grip on there tax free.

That would be cheaper, but it would also be ~6" longer than the AOW suggestion. That would likely make a very big difference in how compact it is, whether or not it could be concealed, and just how overall handy it would be.

Also, thanks for the offer to shoot your shotgun. That being said, I already have a full-length 870 shotgun and have ordered a pistol grip for it to test it out myself. I also can put a sling on the shotgun so I'll be able to test my sling-tension hypothesis.

 

[steviesterno]

That would be cheaper, but it would also be ~6" longer than the AOW suggestion. That would likely make a very big difference in how compact it is, whether or not it could be concealed, and just how overall handy it would be.

Also, thanks for the offer to shoot your shotgun. That being said, I already have a full-length 870 shotgun and have ordered a pistol grip for it to test it out myself. I also can put a sling on the shotgun so I'll be able to test my sling-tension hypothesis.

Well remember the application to make an AOW is $200 same as SBS but then you can never put a stock on it. Transfer existing is $5.

This is my 870 SBS. Has an ~11.75” barrel and about 24” OAL. Anything shorter than that and you have to do work to the mag tube, bars, forend, etc. I can’t do that work and it priced out to upwards of $1k all to lose capacity from where it is now. I added the folding stock because I want it to be easy to transport but hate shooting PG only shotguns.

“Cheaper” to get a SxS and stamp it. No action means you can cut it a lot shorter and have ~ the same capacity.

That said if you want a lot of firepower in a small package, a folding MCX or basic SBR AR will come in to the same length with literally 10x the rounds on deck.

I always wanted a small 12 gauge. I stamped it like 5 years ago and I think I’ve shot maybe 10 rounds through it since then. It’s cool, it’s not financially worthwhile, and you end up with an almost unreasonably expensive shotgun that’s tough to shoot well. I support your decision 100% because I’m not exactly known for making the best decisions but I have a good time doing it.

 

[letusbuyyourcar]

Here's an old ugly JC Higgins slam fire model I stashed at work.

 

[Shotgun Surgery]

Well remember the application to make an AOW is $200 same as SBS but then you can never put a stock on it. Transfer existing is $5.

This is my 870 SBS. Has an ~11.75” barrel and about 24” OAL. Anything shorter than that and you have to do work to the mag tube, bars, forend, etc. I can’t do that work and it priced out to upwards of $1k all to lose capacity from where it is now. I added the folding stock because I want it to be easy to transport but hate shooting PG only shotguns.

“Cheaper” to get a SxS and stamp it. No action means you can cut it a lot shorter and have ~ the same capacity.

That said if you want a lot of firepower in a small package, a folding MCX or basic SBR AR will come in to the same length with literally 10x the rounds on deck.

I always wanted a small 12 gauge. I stamped it like 5 years ago and I think I’ve shot maybe 10 rounds through it since then. It’s cool, it’s not financially worthwhile, and you end up with an almost unreasonably expensive shotgun that’s tough to shoot well. I support your decision 100% because I’m not exactly known for making the best decisions but I have a good time doing it.

Before anything else, thanks for all of the info and taking the time to type all of that up. I really do appreciate it. That being said, I can't help but continue talking shotguns with you

"Well remember the application to make an AOW is $200 same as SBS but then you can never put a stock on it. Transfer existing is $5."

I knew about making an AOW being the same $200 as making an SBS. I know that I could stamp the gun as a SBS instead of an AOW then be able to switch between the pistol grip and a stock at a whim whereas stamping it as an AOW would limit it to not having a stock ever. However, there is one big advantage making it an AOW has that having an SBS doesn't, and that's the complete lack of any legal requirement to inform the ATF if I bring the gun across state lines. If I brought a SBS across state lines without asking the ATF for permission then ended up having to use it that would be technically illegal, whereas if I make the gun an AOW all that would then matter is the different state's laws. Speaking of which, I've heard, so take this with a grain of salt, that many states don't have specific laws concerning AOWs. I'm betting there are some states where it would be illegal to carry around a loaded shotgun whereas there are no laws on the book for an AOW nor any state law definition that would legally make an AOW into a shotgun in the state's eyes.

"Anything shorter than that and you have to do work to the mag tube, bars, forend, etc. I can’t do that work and it priced out to upwards of $1k all to lose capacity from where it is now."

Before deciding to go the route I'm on now that's what I was originally looking at. I wanted something like the Serbu Super Shorty or some equivalent shotgun. The only company I could find still making something to that effect is Paladin Armory which has an ancient web 1.0 website and they only accept payment via check or money order. Apparently they're legitimate, but going through all of that hassle doesn't seem worth it to me, not to mention I could do almost the same thing myself for much less cost than what they're charging. I also looked into trying to source the shorter magazine tube, barrel that would fit the magazine tube, slide action assembly, smaller forend that would fit the shorter slide action assembly, etc. I didn't do as much looking as I could have, but I did a pretty good bit and I couldn't find any such parts for sale. Getting a hold of such parts now seems like you'd have to make it yourself or hire a machinist/gunsmith to custom make the parts of to modify existing parts.

One solace I can take from going the route I am now where I'd have the 4 round tube instead of something shorter is that it's the shortest the tube can be while still taking typical forends, so I'll have many of those options available (railed forends, wood corncob, ones with lights built inside, etc).

"“Cheaper” to get a SxS and stamp it. No action means you can cut it a lot shorter and have ~ the same capacity."

That was actually the plan I had before looking into guns like the Serbu Super Shorty/etc. It's not a terrible idea, but there were a few things that lead me to go down the route I have now. The first is that getting a good side by side shotgun that isn't junk would cost an arm and a leg, more than the entire gun project, stamp and all, that I'm planning now. The cheapest shotgun I was considering was one of the CZ double barrels, and even those go for something like $800. Not to mention, they're black-chrome'd instead of blued so I'm not sure what would be involved in refinishing the raw steel after those barrels would have been cut down.

The other thing, and this is almost inherent to cutting down a double barrel, is that it wouldn't be as much shorter than what I'm planning now as you'd think. Sure, you can chop the barrels to be even shorter (let's say 10" instead of 12.5" like I'm planning) and the action is shorter (another few inches), but unless you want to make a custom pistol-grip to fit your double barrel of choice then you're pretty much stuck using a bird's head type grip made from the stock you chopped down, and that adds a few inches of OAL vs. a pistol grip. A SXS SBS would still be shorter than my current route, sure, but not tremendously shorter. Then you'd be comparing 4+1 shells to simply 2. As much as every inch of OAL makes a big difference, going to 2x or 2.5x the capacity for just a few extra inches of OAL is still pretty big.

That's not to mention that if my hypothetical shooting techniques works out then having a pistol grip as opposed to a bird's head grip would itself be an advantage in terms of recoil. I have a pistol grip on the way to put on my full-length 870 shotgun to start testing that technique. I have high hopes that it will make shooting the PGO gun realistically effective.

"a folding MCX or basic SBR AR will come in to the same length with literally 10x the rounds on deck."

Yeah, but they're also not a shotgun. 5.56 NATO can be a top-tier ballistic performer, but that's from a proper rifle-length barrel. The same is true for most other rifle chamberings. 12 gauge buck or slugs are going to be leaps and bounds more ballistically effective than your typical rifle chambering to start with, much less that rifle chambering from a super short barrel that would further compromise ballistics for most rifle chamberings. From what I've heard about 12 gauge, it performs pretty much the same no matter if you're shooting it from a 10" barrel to a 28" barrel or anything inbetween.

I love the images of your little shotgun. There are two questions I was hoping to ask you about it. What is the overall length of your shotgun while the stock is folded? Also, have you looked into putting some kind of a bead or other sight on the end of its barrel?

Thanks again.

 

[Ken Ford]

I’m just courteous, what kinds of scenario do you see yourself getting into that makes you feel this weapon would be your needed option?

 

[41mag]

I’m just courteous, what kinds of scenario do you see yourself getting into that makes you feel this weapon would be your needed option?

Obviously a very scary one !! Lol
That or something really sticky !

(oh - I think you are “CURIOUS”. Not “COURTEOUS“ …. as stated above ! Sorry, I just had to !!)

 

[basstracker89]

Take one of these
View attachment 5685807
Add a $200 tax stamp to make it an AOW. Then add one of these
View attachment 5685811
Chop the bit of barrel down that extends past the magazine tube, clean it up, dab a little cold blue on it, then move that bead back onto the barrel.

Then add a sling of some kind that attaches to the bottom of the Hogue grip and the end of the magazine tube. To shoot the gun, press forward on both the forend and the pistol grip with the sling offering resistance. That way when you fire the gun you're already pushing forward to counteract the recoil.

Thoughts?

I've had a pistol grip 12 ga before. They are a handful, but manageable. You do have to hold them just right or it can be painful. I never had one, but Pachmayr used to make a nice grip and forend

 

[letusbuyyourcar]

I’m just courteous, what kinds of scenario do you see yourself getting into that makes you feel this weapon would be your needed option?

Bathroom gun maybe?

 

[basstracker89]

Obviously a very scary one !! Lol
That or something really sticky !

(oh - I think you are “CURIOUS”. Not “COURTEOUS“ …. as stated above ! Sorry, I just had to !!)

Ah, he's probably a nice guy......