Seen this before
Pelosi: "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."
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I don’t understand the senate gun bills definition of a dealer?
- Thread starter Jamescg
- Start date
Pelosi: "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."
Good afternoon Comrades!
Vague bill right? Is there even a final copy?? I’m not an attorney, but I may have been married to one... for a long time… and while I cannot claim to be a legal expert, I do believe I have learned quite a bit about language throughout the decades.
I think this bill is pretty straight forward? Although I can‘t find a final copy, hmm - Looks like Joe is simply closing loopholes. If an individual purchases a firearm, and then sells said firearm for a profit, that person is considered a dealer in the eyes of the law. Notice I did not mention anything about intent … Please correct me if I am wrong. So you just need to apply for an FFL, pay your taxes and you’ll be fine.
Lots of unanswered questions in the name of “Protecting the Kids”… Pretty sure it’s going to come down to the court’s perception in respect to a particular encounter … I say you’d be able to get away with buying and selling 20 guns in a year and taking a loss or making a profit. Who’s watching? Should be able to get away with it as long as no one shoots up a school with one of your guns...Wait. What?
Big Brother is pushing for a method to track firearms and I am certain we will see that in the next year. So you buy 20, you sell 20 … and one of them ends up in the hands of an idiot… but you made $100 so who cares? It’s your right to buy and sell property, right? If you’ve been on The Trader for a while I am certain you met the Idiot I just mentioned already ... He’s “that guy” … the one who made the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Left his carry permit at home…but he had cash. Yeah so ATF tracks you down to talk about your ”hobby”. They take a close look at your feedback on The Outdoors Trader. They also ask for receipts, records, documentation, etc. … and they ask for a copy of your FFL. Don’t have one? No problem, pay a fine or go to Federal Prison for a few years. Oh wait, forgot to mention the person you sold your gun to was a felon. Fine, and Federal Prison and we are confiscating your home, vehicles, and your guns. That’s of course assuming you have about $50,000 laying around to pay a defense attorney, otherwise see you in the Afterlife.
Over the past few years I have watched individuals purchase firearms, walk out in the parking lot, photograph the firearm and list it for sale moments after purchase … “New in case, never fired” … We’ve all seen the photos of handguns photographed on someone’s lap … you can see the guy‘s knees, sandals, toes and dirty floor mat. If ever asked ”why did you sell the gun?” the response - legal defense - is simply I decided I did not like it - it’s my right - I don’t want it - it’s my right - I want a different color - it’s my right - etc... I knew someone paying a mortgage with his “gun hobby”….exercising his rights. Everyone is under the misconception “this is not my problem“, ”I asked if he was legal to own a gun”, ”it’s my right” …
Well all that was really smart use of our rights... and now our friends on The Hill have figured out just how smart everyone is and taken away our ability to buy a firearm and sell it. Notice I didn’t say “take away rights” … because that kind of language costs politicians elections. You have the right to buy firearms. You have the right to sell your firearms. If you buy a firearms AND sell it for a profit you are classified as a dealer... and if we are going to be honest here this is a pretty accurate legal description of a business or dealer. Good news though, I believe transactions between family members are exempt … time to get close with the cousins.
Forgive the rant here but this bill ruins it for all of us … People could not be reasonable. People went after the quick and easy buck and we all watched it happen. Get ready for bans, tracking and buy back programs coming to a local Sheriff‘s office near you
Never thought I’d live long enough to see this on the horizon … “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" …
The bill encourages states to include juvenile records in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System with grants as well as implements a new protocol for checking those records.
www.cnn.com
Biden signs bipartisan gun safety bill into law: 'God willing, it's going to save a lot of lives'
President Joe Biden on Saturday signed into law the first major federal gun safety legislation passed in decades, marking a significant bipartisan breakthrough on one of the most contentious policy issues in Washington.
www.cnn.com
One thing I read about the new law was, if you took credit cards then you were considered a dealer.
From Congress as of 6/24/2002 - “To the President”:
SEC. 12002. DEFINING “ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS”.
Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended—
(1) in paragraph (21)(C), by striking “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” and inserting “to predominantly earn a profit”;
(2) by redesignating paragraphs (22) through (29) as paragraphs (23) through (30), respectively; and
(3) by inserting after paragraph (21) the following:
“(22) The term ‘to predominantly earn a profit’ means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term ‘terrorism’ means activity, directed against United States persons, which—
“(A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States;
“(B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and
“(C) is intended—
“(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
“(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
“(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.”
So my friends … if you buy a Glock for $450 at your local gun store, and then list it for sale on The Outdoors Trader the next day for $650 your intent is to obtain pecuniary gain. You pass the test - you are a gun dealer.
SEC. 12002. DEFINING “ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS”.
Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended—
(1) in paragraph (21)(C), by striking “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” and inserting “to predominantly earn a profit”;
(2) by redesignating paragraphs (22) through (29) as paragraphs (23) through (30), respectively; and
(3) by inserting after paragraph (21) the following:
“(22) The term ‘to predominantly earn a profit’ means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term ‘terrorism’ means activity, directed against United States persons, which—
“(A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States;
“(B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and
“(C) is intended—
“(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
“(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
“(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.”
So my friends … if you buy a Glock for $450 at your local gun store, and then list it for sale on The Outdoors Trader the next day for $650 your intent is to obtain pecuniary gain. You pass the test - you are a gun dealer.
Good luck proving "the intent of the underlying sale".
I forgot about that gas bill that was due.
Well, if you adjust for inflation, I’ve probably lost money on the few I’ve sold.
I haven't read the bill (new law, signed by the Prez) yet.
But if the above language is accurate, it WOULD apply to flippers.
That is, unless ATF decides to let it slide (for now, for the time being) as to small-scale flippers, especially those who buy used guns from private party sellers in the same state,
But the language here could be strictly construed and applied to a lot of the ODT regulars who buy guns, hold them a while, don't shoot them, and sell them for more money-- even exceeding the normal inflation rate. The "intent" of the buyer to acquire a gun just to flip it might be hard to discern at the time he GETS the gun, but by the time he SELLS it, the circumstances of how he used it (or didn't use it) and the circumstances of the SALE could supply the evidence needed to prove what his mindset was back then.
If you see a crate of $99 Moisin rifles at a local flea market, from a private party, a widow who is liquidating her late husband's collection and selling for what HE paid, back a dozen years ago,
SHE may not be a dealer under this new law, but YOU might, if you buy even ONE of those rifles and immediately list it here for $199.
SHE may not be a dealer under this new law, but YOU might, if you buy even ONE of those rifles and immediately list it here for $199.
They’re the gubmint. If they say you’re guilty, burden of proving innocence is on you. GLWS
