My page has a logout option, doesn't yours?
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may take a break from the gun trading seems it isnt what it was.
- Thread starter Warrent
- Start date
My page has a logout option, doesn't yours?
Here's my take on it:
I never considered the ODT a "money making venture." I have bought quite a bit (more than 99% of my activity), but only sold a couple of things which I no longer needed.
I saw it as an opportunity to learn about things where my experience was lacking; this was the biggest draw for me.
Along the way, I learned to enjoy the social posts, the personalities, etc.
I don't particularly like the way the site has morphed at times, but I'm not mad about it (but perhaps disappointed).
JMHO
I never considered the ODT a "money making venture." I have bought quite a bit (more than 99% of my activity), but only sold a couple of things which I no longer needed.
I saw it as an opportunity to learn about things where my experience was lacking; this was the biggest draw for me.
Along the way, I learned to enjoy the social posts, the personalities, etc.
I don't particularly like the way the site has morphed at times, but I'm not mad about it (but perhaps disappointed).
JMHO
That to me is the #1 problem, plus dealers now sell/advertising hundreds of new firearms with no FFL recording of sale, what's up with that ??? Those are the ones you read about being busted by the ATF in the paper, they make us all look bad but for some reason they are allowed to continue on here.
Wow Patronus, there is just so much to agree and disagree within your post. The "offering a home" for illegal arms dealers and ammo flippers, is just a bit off target. I don't remember seeing anything about who can and cannot be on ODT. You sign up, don't have to pay anything, and hello, you are a member. ODT is not a policing agency and does not have the authority to determine guilt or innocence. The entire selling/trading/buying experience is left up to you, within the frame work of the few rules that ODT has. I have yet to hear from someone who purchased .22s rounds or anything really, and admit that they are upset with the price, the condition sure. The problem on ODT is not the "flipper", the blame should be place squarely on those who buy at those prices. The "greed" part, well that is probably true. But, the buyers of those overpriced rounds should be held accountable. Without a market, the flippers would not be here.
You say it is understandable that ODT should not be monitoring prices, yet you want to tell the seller about his high price. That, to me, does not make any sense whatsoever. A member creates an ad, and you want everyone to know how that item is priced too high, in your opinion. Sorry, what I value an item, may differ from your opinion, but it is my item. I do not want or need anyone's opinion of the price of my item. Imagine if ODT allowed negative comments in someone's ad. Well, before long, there would be few if any ads to sell anything on ODT. ODT as a chatting area is not worth much, but as a place to sell and buy firearms, it is a pretty good place.
As for calling the IRS and the ATF, don't ask someone else to do it, YOU do it. I think it is the height of hypocrisy for you to find fault, but ask someone else to do the work for you. If you do make that call, I hope you are able to prove that they are illegal arms dealers. Making false claims is not something I would want to be a part of, especially if I am calling the ATF. They are the most unfunny group of people you would ever NOT want to see.
I am not falling back on "capitalism" as a reason to let others sell at the price they feel it is worth. If I sell an item, it is mine and I will do as I please with it, whether it ruffles your feathers or not. If I buy an item, and I pay too much, then it is on me, not the seller. This tired argument has been going on for a long time. I do however agree with you about re-posts. There really should be a limit on the number of times an item can be re-listed without any changes to either the price or the accessories that come with it. But, that is just my opinion, and you have yours. Now, where is my coffee?
Yeah, I see your thinking. Be a part of the criminal activity and like it or get the **** out. Got it. That's the wonder of being a part of a group that talks so much **** about being legal and righteous and passively watches scum in action. Makes me wonder just how much scum one has to slide against before becoming scum himself.
I drive on the road everyday along side drunk drivers, tweaked out meth heads, etc. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean I am taking part in criminal activity. And I'm pretty sure there isn't a whole lot of criminal activity going on here. Is the classifieds frustrating? Absolutely.
Lol, on your high horse looking down on us scum? So is it criminal activity to sell or buy at prices above what YOU consider fair? For the record, I don't like the higher than hell 22 prices from the flippers, but the only thing I can do about it is not buy from them. I have worn more than one hat, making comments in the classifieds on stupid pricing.
But by all means, call the ATF, FBI, SCOTUS, or anyone else you would like to. As long as it makes you feel superior and righteous .
I like to talk about guns, and like to read about guns even more so there is always something to read about and occasionally I slide a comment in myself. It's fun or I would not be here. Period.
I still find good deals on guns, accessories, ammo, etc on a pretty regular basis. I have seen some great deals this past week. If I had more money I would be making more deals. When I am seriously looking to buy and I don't like a price, I move on. Same as when I'm in a GS, pawn shop, gun show, or wherever. This is still the best outdoors trading site in the world.
I still find good deals on guns, accessories, ammo, etc on a pretty regular basis. I have seen some great deals this past week. If I had more money I would be making more deals. When I am seriously looking to buy and I don't like a price, I move on. Same as when I'm in a GS, pawn shop, gun show, or wherever. This is still the best outdoors trading site in the world.
The ODT is private property. Whatever rules the owner wants to make are the rules. Period. So the choice to ignore flippers and illegal arms dealers IS a choice. Period.
Infracting people for making price comments in blatantly ****ed threads is spineless IMO and just encourages more flipping and illegal arms sales. So, again, it's a choice.
Yeah, I guess I should indeed make a post to the ATF regarding illegal arms sales. Just a couple of weeks back there was a case in west GA where some guy got convicted of that very thing. Might be high time a few screen shots of sellers with batch after batch of gun listings was forwarded to the ATF.
And too, once a hobby becomes a profitable venture that is pursued past a certain amount it becomes INCOME and is taxable so the IRS would most likely be interested in looking into the tax evasion angle of it.
See, I have a conflict. On one hand, I try to do what's right, expect others to and expect laws to be basically obeyed and enforced. On the other hand, I grew up believing that you don't tattle on people. You fix things yourself and expect others to do the same. But, here on the ODT, trying to nudge people to do the right thing will get YOU an infraction. Right and wrong are subjective apparently. And judging from a few reactions to my feelings on it, right and wrong are alien concepts to a few folks.
The people who are breaking the law are using the gun community as their target clientele. We are a Trojan horse that criminals are hiding within. If that doesn't bother you then it speaks as much about you as it does them. We like to think of ourselves as good, law abiding people beset by liberals for nothing more criminal than exercising our right to self defense. And most of us are exactly that. But if we tolerate criminals to act inside our community then we are feeding the liberal fire against us.
And no, moron, it's not about what I think is a fair price. It's about what it does to all of us. But then stupid people can't see past their own noses and lack the ability to understand what it actually does.
The illegal gun sales gives incentive for liberals to pass MORE laws and dig deeper into our LEGAL activities. We should ALL be outraged when people break the law.
"Following a week-long trial, Michael Albert Focia, 48, was convicted on one count of dealing in firearms without a federal firearms license and two counts of transferring a firearm to an out-of-state resident. Based on the evidence introduced at trial, Focia operated as a weapons vendor on “Black Market Reloaded” and “Agora,” both of which were underground marketplaces accessible only when using anonymous encrypted internet browsing software.
During the investigation, Special Agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) posed as gun buyers on these two Darknet websites and were able to negotiate for the sale of two guns from Focia. After agreeing to sell the guns, Focia shipped them from Alabama to Nebraska and New Jersey. In the case of the New Jersey gun, evidence at trial showed that Focia’s fingerprint was on the gun’s packaging.
Focia was also connected at trial to at least 15 to 25 additional gun sales based on information obtained from the Agora website. Focia’s sentencing hearing has been set for October 15, 2015, and he is facing a maximum sentence of 15 years in federal prison."
https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/montgomery-man-convicted-illegal-gun-sales-darknet-sites
Oh and by the way...in order for the people I am speaking of to buy the guns they sell they are lying on the 4473 because they are knowingly buying to resell. That constitutes a straw purchase.
And the IRS has this to say:
"An activity is presumed for profit if it makes a profit in at least three of the last five tax years, including the current year (or at least two of the last seven years for activities that consist primarily of breeding, showing, training or racing horses)."
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Is-Your-Hobby-a-For-Profit-Endeavor?
And:
"Activity not for profit. You must include on your return income from an activity from which you do not expect to make a profit. An example of this type of activity is a hobby or a farm you operate mostly for recreation and pleasure. "
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf
So if you make money on a hobby it is taxable but if you are selling guns for profit you are actually running a small business and are CERTAINLY taxable.
Yep. Got a little crime wave right here and nobody even seems to care.
Infracting people for making price comments in blatantly ****ed threads is spineless IMO and just encourages more flipping and illegal arms sales. So, again, it's a choice.
Yeah, I guess I should indeed make a post to the ATF regarding illegal arms sales. Just a couple of weeks back there was a case in west GA where some guy got convicted of that very thing. Might be high time a few screen shots of sellers with batch after batch of gun listings was forwarded to the ATF.
And too, once a hobby becomes a profitable venture that is pursued past a certain amount it becomes INCOME and is taxable so the IRS would most likely be interested in looking into the tax evasion angle of it.
See, I have a conflict. On one hand, I try to do what's right, expect others to and expect laws to be basically obeyed and enforced. On the other hand, I grew up believing that you don't tattle on people. You fix things yourself and expect others to do the same. But, here on the ODT, trying to nudge people to do the right thing will get YOU an infraction. Right and wrong are subjective apparently. And judging from a few reactions to my feelings on it, right and wrong are alien concepts to a few folks.
The people who are breaking the law are using the gun community as their target clientele. We are a Trojan horse that criminals are hiding within. If that doesn't bother you then it speaks as much about you as it does them. We like to think of ourselves as good, law abiding people beset by liberals for nothing more criminal than exercising our right to self defense. And most of us are exactly that. But if we tolerate criminals to act inside our community then we are feeding the liberal fire against us.
And no, moron, it's not about what I think is a fair price. It's about what it does to all of us. But then stupid people can't see past their own noses and lack the ability to understand what it actually does.
The illegal gun sales gives incentive for liberals to pass MORE laws and dig deeper into our LEGAL activities. We should ALL be outraged when people break the law.
"Following a week-long trial, Michael Albert Focia, 48, was convicted on one count of dealing in firearms without a federal firearms license and two counts of transferring a firearm to an out-of-state resident. Based on the evidence introduced at trial, Focia operated as a weapons vendor on “Black Market Reloaded” and “Agora,” both of which were underground marketplaces accessible only when using anonymous encrypted internet browsing software.
During the investigation, Special Agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) posed as gun buyers on these two Darknet websites and were able to negotiate for the sale of two guns from Focia. After agreeing to sell the guns, Focia shipped them from Alabama to Nebraska and New Jersey. In the case of the New Jersey gun, evidence at trial showed that Focia’s fingerprint was on the gun’s packaging.
Focia was also connected at trial to at least 15 to 25 additional gun sales based on information obtained from the Agora website. Focia’s sentencing hearing has been set for October 15, 2015, and he is facing a maximum sentence of 15 years in federal prison."
https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/montgomery-man-convicted-illegal-gun-sales-darknet-sites
Oh and by the way...in order for the people I am speaking of to buy the guns they sell they are lying on the 4473 because they are knowingly buying to resell. That constitutes a straw purchase.
And the IRS has this to say:
"An activity is presumed for profit if it makes a profit in at least three of the last five tax years, including the current year (or at least two of the last seven years for activities that consist primarily of breeding, showing, training or racing horses)."
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Is-Your-Hobby-a-For-Profit-Endeavor?
And:
"Activity not for profit. You must include on your return income from an activity from which you do not expect to make a profit. An example of this type of activity is a hobby or a farm you operate mostly for recreation and pleasure. "
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p17.pdf
So if you make money on a hobby it is taxable but if you are selling guns for profit you are actually running a small business and are CERTAINLY taxable.
Yep. Got a little crime wave right here and nobody even seems to care.
Damn ya'll take all of the fun out of tradin.
