Buying a pistol for my grandson

[CTS Tactical]

We will just have to disagree. If you just supplied the funds and never had possession of the firearm then why would your name need to be on anything. It would be no different if you gave your grandson money and he ordered his own gun.
I will admit that the democrats would like to have every bit of info they can get on anything involving a firearm purchase but I see nothing in print that says they have a right to it. Transferee or buyer. Notice they even put transferee first on the form ahead of buyer.
Obviously I am not a lawyer but doesn't being listed first normally infer some priority?

 

[Fatal_Bert]

I'm still laughing at the fact y'all think FFL's do some kind of investigation on who purchased the gun from the online retailer or wherever.

Half the time we don't have access to that information, the gun just comes with a FFL copy and the transfereees name.

Dude could have bought it with his wife's credit card or a stolen card for all I know. It's not my business and I'm not required to keep any record of the financials.

It's a TRANSFER, that's all. The person who plans on taking ownership of the gun is the TRANSFEREE and is who fills out the 4473.

 

[CTS Tactical]

Let's not forget the last part of 21a; Exception: If you are only picking up a repaired firearm for another person, you are not required to answer 21a and may proceed to 21b.
So in that scenario am I the Buyer? Transferee? No, none of the above. Leave it blank and move on. So you are filling out a 4473 for a firearm that does not legally belong to you. Oh my. How is this possible? I think I my head is going to explode.

 

[300_whisper]

We are forgetting some critical information here:

On the form 4473 question 46ZF specifically asks:

What if the sun were to explode and penguin's took over the frozen wasteland aimlessly floating through space; would the purchaser still maintain ownership of the firearm to defend earth from space penguins?

Yes
No
Tacos

Answering this correctly is crucial to ensuring the firearm is properly transferred to your grandson. I am class 12 FFL holder and harvard law grad, so I know what I am talking about.

 

[wolfmanrogers]

We will just have to disagree. If you just supplied the funds and never had possession of the firearm then why would your name need to be on anything. It would be no different if you gave your grandson money and he ordered his own gun.
I will admit that the democrats would like to have every bit of info they can get on anything involving a firearm purchase but I see nothing in print that says they have a right to it. Transferee or buyer. Notice they even put transferee first on the form ahead of buyer.
Obviously I am not a lawyer but doesn't being listed first normally infer some priority?

It matters because the process of purchasing is directly related to ownership, and ownership of the firearm is the very reason for question (a) on the 4473. The question is worded in the present tense, not past tense. I'm not saying I agree with it, just what it is.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

What you say makes sense, but that's not the law.
You're suggesting that the actual buyer can just leave himself off the "chain of title" on the gun since he KNOWS
it will be immediately transferred to another person.

Yet, I don't think the actual law allows the buyer to keep his name off the 4473 and the background check.
There's no "good enough reason" exception in this law. If there were, this scenario would surely be one of those plenty good reasons.

The current law has a provision for dealing with this:
1-- Grandpa buys the gun, accepts being labeled as the actual buyer and owner [if only temporarily).
2-- Grandpa gives gun as gift to Grandson.
3-- Feds, if they need to trace gun down, pull records on dealer, look at form, find Grandpa and ask him some questions about what became of that gun.

The Democrats PROPOSED FEDERAL LAW would have a new way of dealing with this:
1-- All gun sales and transfers and gifts must go through an FFL, with all the gun info and current owner info going into an instantly-searchable national database.
2-- Grandson does his own 4473 and submits to his own background check, just like Grandpa did earlier (perhaps only minutes earlier).

I'd love to know your win/loss record in court.

 

[wolfmanrogers]

Fatal Bert is the type of fella that washes his balls with Lava soap because he likes how it feels, and the smell isn't too bad either.

 

[CTS Tactical]

It matters because the process of purchasing is directly related to ownership, and ownership of the firearm is the very reason for question (a) on the 4473. The question is worded in the present tense, not past tense. I'm not saying I agree with it, just what it is.

Again, you are completely ignoring the fact that it says: transferee/buyer, meaning either the transferee or the buyer. The process of purchasing has absolutely nothing to do with it if it is a gift.
I get guns quite often for transfer to a certain competitive shooter sent to me by the manufacturer that are prizes for matches he has won. He didn't purchase these guns with his own money. How can I legally transfer them? Because he is the transferee without being the buyer. Same guy writes articles for gun magazines. He gets firearms sent to him by manufacturers quite regularly to research for articles he is writing. He fills out a 4473 and takes possession while never actually owning the guns. When he is done with them, they get sent back.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Fatal Bert is the type of fella that washes his balls with Lava soap because he likes how it feels, and the smell isn't too bad either.

I do use lava soap in the shower, not even joking and a little disturbed that you know that

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Nothing gets you cleaner than the lava, I'll die on that hill.