What to do in a situation...

[GAGunguy]

If anyone got close and aggressive with me me id have to rely on 20 years of hockey, wrap em up and grab of their tshirt and yank it up over their head, and then down, never fails in a close quarters. Try fighting with both arms wrapped up over your head.


And yes, action beats reaction ever time,

 

[protective measures]

He was in the Airforce if I am correct. Which explains why Ken Ford has heard it used before. I believe Ken was Airforce. Doesn't matter much it is good structure for training. It is just a term I have never used in 14 years of Army SOF.

Most top firearms trainers/ schools refer to it in their curriculum. Most civilian encounters with violence are reactive or defensive instead of offensive.

The sooner that a person recognizes or "observes" a potential threat in their environment the more time & therefore more options they have to deal with it.

Understanding how the OODA loop works helps one to process that info. faster.

Thats one of the topics that we cover at length in our classroom portion.

In more simple terms... the sooner (or farther away) that you notice the guy staring intently at you from under his hoodie after glancing around the parking lot & seeing no one else around who is quickly walking in your direction from behind a dumpster while holding something in his hand whose path & speed might intercept you well before you reach your car, the more time/options you have to decide what to do.

By contrast, not becoming aware of that same person until they are within arms length w/ either a weapon pointed in your direction or simply an outstretched hand compresses our reaction time & places us in much greater danger.

Many people understand the logic of the concept but it is so important we try to stress the regular use of it, especially in higher threat environments.

 

[Bypass]

Most top firearms trainers/ schools refer to it in their curriculum. Most civilian encounters with violence are reactive or defensive instead of offensive.

The sooner that a person recognizes or "observes" a potential threat in their environment the more time & therefore more options they have to deal with it.

Understanding how the OODA loop works helps one to process that info. faster.

Thats one of the topics that we cover at length in our classroom portion.

In more simple terms... the sooner (or farther away) that you notice the guy staring intently at you from under his hoodie after glancing around the parking lot & seeing no one else around who is quickly walking in your direction from behind a dumpster while holding something in his hand whose path & speed might intercept you well before you reach your car, the more time/options you have to decide what to do.

By contrast, not becoming aware of that same person until they are within arms length w/ either a weapon pointed in your direction or simply an outstretched hand compresses our reaction time & places us in much greater danger.

Many people understand the logic of the concept but it is so important we try to stress the regular use of it, especially in higher threat environments.

I agree most civilians really have no situational awareness. That type of instruction will be really helpful to them in the course of there life. Sounds like a good course and I am glad you are teaching it. The more people who are aware of their surroundings and are sufficiently well armed and trained the safer the world will be for everyone.

 

[randomreader]

Legally, you want to try to retreat, which makes the other person the aggressor.

Thank God we have Stand Your Ground in Georgia. If you did so without that law, if it went to court... you could be out 10k in lawyer fees before the trial actually starts.

I have to ask, though--let's say we're in another State, and a black 'youth' tries to rob you (just physical force) and you shoot. Who of us would be brave or insane enough to go to the cops and instantly be another George Zimmerman?

 

[AKguy]

I have to ask, though--let's say we're in another State, and a black 'youth' tries to rob you (just physical force) and you shoot. Who of us would be brave or insane enough to go to the cops and instantly be another George Zimmerman?

Why would any black youth be aggressors? Most of the ones you see walking around are probably on their way to job interviews, for your information.


My brother brought that up the other day. Even in a jutified situation, even if the aggressor had a knife, would you be better off just picking up your casings and getting the hell out of dodge, or calling the police?

 

[Laufen]

I would run first if appropriate. Avoid confrontation until you can't.

I'll bet can outrun 99.9% of the bums out there.

 

[Laxguy59]

Why would any black youth be aggressors? Most of the ones you see walking around are probably on their way to job interviews, for your information.


My brother brought that up the other day. Even in a jutified situation, even if the aggressor had a knife, would you be better off just picking up your casings and getting the hell out of dodge, or calling the police?

Better to STFU call your lawyer first and cops second. If you appear to hide the incident your not gunna have a fun time, but only state you shot in defense and all questions will have to wait for your lawyer. Zimmerman was ****ing retarded and ignored attorneys.

 

[AKguy]

Better to STFU call your lawyer first and cops second. If you appear to hide the incident your not gunna have a fun time, but only state you shot in defense and all questions will have to wait for your lawyer. Zimmerman was ****ing retarded and ignored attorneys.

That's what I said. In a SD situation, you might still go to jail until the smoke clears, but it's better to put everything out on the table (as far as the situation itself is concerned). If you try to disappear and they catch up with you later it makes you look guily of some wrongdoing.

 

[Bulldawg165]

Better to STFU call your lawyer first and cops second. If you appear to hide the incident your not gunna have a fun time, but only state you shot in defense and all questions will have to wait for your lawyer. Zimmerman was ****ing retarded and ignored attorneys.

Two additional notes about Zimmerman that need to be considered:
1) Since the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow Martin and he still did, it's really hard for him to claim that he wasn't the aggressor (I'm not going to argue whether or not he was... I'm just stating a fact that that's how most people see it)
2) I may be mistaken, but I don't think Zimmerman called the cops after he shot Martin. Wasn't it the neighbors who called the cops while he just stood there over Zimmerman's body? You should always call the police after you shoot somebody IMO, even if you're completely justified in the shooting and even if all you're going to say is "It was self defense. I'm not saying anything else until I have my lawyer present."

I'm not trying to change the subject of this thread and get into an argument about whether Zimmerman is guilty or not, but there were other things at work that caused Zimmerman to be going through what he's going through. If a black youth attacks you and threatens lethal force then you'd be alright defending yourself, provided you knew the laws, kept your cool, and knew how to explain how the laws were applicable and how you feared for your life, etc.

 

[captdave77]

Two additional notes about Zimmerman that need to be considered:
1) Since the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow Martin and he still did, it's really hard for him to claim that he wasn't the aggressor (I'm not going to argue whether or not he was... I'm just stating a fact that that's how most people see it)
2) I may be mistaken, but I don't think Zimmerman called the cops after he shot Martin. Wasn't it the neighbors who called the cops while he just stood there over Zimmerman's body? You should always call the police after you shoot somebody IMO, even if you're completely justified in the shooting and even if all you're going to say is "It was self defense. I'm not saying anything else until I have my lawyer present."

I'm not trying to change the subject of this thread and get into an argument about whether Zimmerman is guilty or not, but there were other things at work that caused Zimmerman to be going through what he's going through. If a black youth attacks you and threatens lethal force then you'd be alright defending yourself, provided you knew the laws, kept your cool, and knew how to explain how the laws were applicable and how you feared for your life, etc.

Not to digress here but you are mistaken on a couple of facts on the Zimmerman case.

1. The 911 operator did not instruct Zimmerman not to follow. She said "we don't need you to do that" and yes there is a difference.

2. Zimmerman did not follow Martin after she said that. Zimmerman was attacked by Martin on the way back to his car.