How To Run a Pump Shotgun

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

As used in the OP's recommended video, to "run" a shotgun means all aspects of shotgun operation --including the choices of what gun to buy, how to modify it or what accessories to add to it, what ammo to feed it, learning the basic manual of arms, such as loading and unloading, using the gun's safety features, holding the gun in the correct stance and grip, and firing it quickly with practical accuracy.

As used in this thread AFTER page 1, we are referring to "running" a shotgun as to what grip affords the best CQB shooting-- the fastest, most stable, most accurate, and without smashing your own thumb into your nose under recoil.

 

[chaostat]

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

― Mark Twain

 

[Wheeler]

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

― Mark Twain

I have yet to see any stupid people in this thread. I’ve only seen those with extensive training who know what they are talking about, casual commenters, and one guy that can’t admit he’s out of his depth. No stupid people though.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Y'all do it whatever new trendy way you want.
On a conventionally stocked gun, whether a Mossberg 500 pump or M1 Garand semi auto, I'll do it the way Jerry Miculek does.
Not a complete wraparound, but a partial wrap with the thumb WELL PAST the centerline of the gun's receiver.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Maybe I'll just keep my thumb up at the 12 o'clock position
as shown here by Audie Murphy,
America's most decorated combat veteran of World War II.

But, maybe not, because I don't think Audie Murphy ever attended any of the defensive shotgun classes that Lee Weems or Chris Baker have on their resumes.
Training credentials--- that's what matters!

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Col. Jeff Cooper's got his thumb fairly well wrapped
around the wrist of this heavy recoiling bolt action rifle he's shooting.

(I wonder if, in his later years, he ever attended the classes at his own combat shooting academy, Gunsite, where instructors presumably would teach people to leave their thumbs along the right side of the stock instead. Would they tell Cooper he's doing it wrong?)

 

[cmshoot]

Col. Jeff Cooper's got his thumb fairly well wrapped
around the wrist of this heavy recoiling bolt action rifle he's shooting.

(I wonder if, in his later years, he ever attended the classes at his own combat shooting academy, Gunsite, where instructors presumably would teach people to leave their thumbs along the right side of the stock instead. Would they tell Cooper he's doing it wrong?)
View attachment 2584864

Why don’t you post pics of Davy Crockett while you’re at it? “Let’s do stuff the way they did it in the previous centuries, cuz that was good ‘nuff for dem!”

Post some pics of the old pistoleros, from the Old West up through the 1950’s. One-handed combat pistol shooting was all the rage back then, and 2-handed shooting was for women and *******. How many hands do you prefer to use when shooting a combat handgun?

We evolve. We learn better/different techniques and we apply them. Open your mind and be receptive to newer techniques. I say “newer”, and not “new”, because Ayoob was advocating not wrapping the thumb around the wrist of a combat shotgun as early as 1992......possibly before, but that’s when he put it to paper.

I would hope the Instructors at Gunsite aren’t stuck in the mud and are open to new techniques. All the good Instructors that I have ever met are open-minded. You are not and, in my opinion, would not make a very good Instructor beyond teaching the beginner’s basics.

No one said wrapping the thumb around the stock, as you and Col. Cooper prefer to do, was wrong. We are simply showing another technique. The only one here calling out right and wrong is you. Use whatever technique you want to use. If it works for you, then it’s a valid technique. The technique that has you all in a dander works for some folks, so it’s a valid technique. I teach both and let the students decide for themselves what works best for THEM.

I disagree with a lot of stuff that I read that came from Col. Cooper. If he were alive today I’d love to have a discussion with him about those particular points. In regards to the picture of him shooting the bolt action, you can bet your ass that I would tell him that the grip he is using is not as efficient as lying the thumb alongside the stock and underneath the bolt handle. His grip isn’t giving him anything extra, and all it is doing is slowing his ability to work the bolt. So, it isn’t wrong, per se, but it isn’t as efficient as it could be. I use the term “efficient” in my courses a lot.

This argument has no more validity than AR vs AK, or 9mm vs .40 vs .45.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

...No one said wrapping the thumb around the stock,
as you and Col. Cooper prefer to do, was wrong.
We are simply showing another technique...

Chris Baker said NOT to wrap the thumb. He (correctly) said this can result in you getting your thumb driven back into your face if you fire with less than a solid hold on the shotgun. Chris demonstrated a full wrap and said not that way. He then laid his thumb on the right side of the receiver, but up high around 1 o'clock, and said this is what you should do.


But, the image above is not what I objected to. His thumb is still pretty close to the top of the receiver, and this part of the video lasted for a few brief seconds. Later, when he fires the shotgun with live ammo, he has his thumb much lower --closer to the trigger guard.
THAT is what I first commented on, in this thread, with a pic showing that thumb positioning.

 

[Dundee]

Please offer a definition or meaning of the word "run" as it is used here.

Well for some its a dexterous, coordinated and almost professional proficiency. They "run" the gun. For others its standing there seeing how many donuts they can fit in their mouth whilst fantasising about proficiency and superiority.

 

[Wheeler]

View attachment 2584880 View attachment 2584881


Chris Baker said NOT to wrap the thumb. He (correctly) said this can result in you getting your thumb driven back into your face if you fire with less than a solid hold on the shotgun. Chris demonstrated a full wrap and said not that way. He then laid his thumb on the right side of the receiver, but up high around 1 o'clock, and said this is what you should do.


But, the image above is not what I objected to. His thumb is still pretty close to the top of the receiver, and this part of the video lasted for a few brief seconds. Later, when he fires the shotgun with live ammo, he has his thumb much lower --closer to the trigger guard.
THAT is what I first commented on, in this thread, with a pic showing that thumb positioning.

And so you continue to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pen with all the fervor of a pedantic zealot. Your epiphany is nothing of great import. Your pig headed insistence on continuing to argue your position using specious appeals to an authority you yourself don’t actually have is childish behavior.