Bill of Sale vs. No Bill of Sale

[Fatal_Bert]

Yep, that'll make em leave real quick and never come back, ya better lawyer up $$$$$$$$$$$, if you do that, they'll be back with a search warrent if ya blow em off and slam the door.
Your butt your choices Bro
I been there done that, from both side of th fence, have YOU any experience with this situation

Yes. I have experience with giving friendly cops a honest written statement about something I witnessed only to have it used against me.

I was young and dumb and didn't realize then if I had simply kept my mouth shut it would have saved me a lot of headache.

Keeping a bill of sale is pointless but doesn't really hurt anything. Showing it to the police can hurt you though. They don't collect evidence in your favor, they couldn't use evidence you provide them in your favor even if they wanted too.

If I were keeping bills of sales for private collection I would only show them to an attorney for advice in the case of any potential trouble. Handing any evidence over to police is just asking for further investigation and potential trouble.

If they have a warrant for your arrest then they're going to serve that warrant regardless of your FFL junior paperwork.

If they don't have a warrant then they must respect your right to not answer questions. No judge will grant them a warrant for your refusal to talk.

 

[jaf1]

I have and all it was was a phone call about two guns I had sold to someone on here that was being investigated for gun running. They just wanted serial numbers that I didn't have. Said thank you and goodbye. No big deal.

 

[BHPSteel]

Hence my 'collection' of just enough information - "Yeah, I always ask for proof that someone is eligible to buy in-state from me (residency and birth date), and if they can't provide that, I won't sell it".

Since you have no way of telling whether the buyer is a felon or not, and if he is, he will lie - then there's no point asking.

And as Fatal_Bert says, any paperwork you might have is possibly a liability, and is at least a risk. If it's not mandated, don't do it.

Edit: as Fatal_Bert also notes, the objective of the police is to collect evidence for an indictment, possibly followed by a trial that might feature you as a defendent. It's not generally in your interest to be "overhelpful", because that statue of a lady with a blindfold and sword is just as capable of smiting you as anyone else.

 

[GeauxLSU]

I have and all it was was a phone call about two guns I had sold to someone on here that was being investigated for gun running. They just wanted serial numbers that I didn't have. Said thank you and goodbye. No big deal.

Guess you don't own any dogs.

 

[jaf1]

Guess you don't own any dogs.

I do, but was pretty sure they couldn't do it over the phone.

 

[GeauxLSU]

I do, but was pretty sure they couldn't do it over the phone.

If they'd have heard a bark....

 

[User170512]

Showing it to the police can hurt you though. They don't collect evidence in your favor, they couldn't use evidence you provide them in your favor even if they wanted too.

^^^THIS^^^
Nothing you ever tell the police can be used by them to help you. Nothing. Hearsay. Saying less is so much more.

 

[Woodrow F. Call]

I apologize for beating the dead horse. And yes, I should have searched for it before posting, my bad. I've been a long time lurker, mostly looking at ads, but rarely in the forum section. I wanted to get to the recent gun show, but something came up and I couldn't make it. I appreciate everyone's advice and opinions, on both sides of the fence. I've been trying to get around to selling some things but I've been up to my eyeballs for so long I can't even remember what it's like to have some free time for fun stuff. At risk of further fanning the flames, my leaning is to require a GA permit even though they are no longer required, but no bill of sale. I think my inclination would be to simply not say anything and/or provide my attorney's name and number if pushed. With cameras everywhere you look now days, a lifestyle of basically going back and forth between about 5 locations 99% of my life and a GPS tracker on my vehicle to keep track of mileage (which logs if it has been disconnected), I don't think it'd be very hard to provide an alibi if one was needed. Thank you everyone for the info and not ripping me a new one for posting something I obviously should have searched for.

 

[User170512]

I apologize for beating the dead horse. And yes, I should have searched for it before posting, my bad. I've been a long time lurker, mostly looking at ads, but rarely in the forum section. I wanted to get to the recent gun show, but something came up and I couldn't make it. I appreciate everyone's advice and opinions, on both sides of the fence. I've been trying to get around to selling some things but I've been up to my eyeballs for so long I can't even remember what it's like to have some free time for fun stuff. At risk of further fanning the flames, my leaning is to require a GA permit even though they are no longer required, but no bill of sale. I think my inclination would be to simply not say anything and/or provide my attorney's name and number if pushed. With cameras everywhere you look now days, a lifestyle of basically going back and forth between about 5 locations 99% of my life and a GPS tracker on my vehicle to keep track of mileage (which logs if it has been disconnected), I don't think it'd be very hard to provide an alibi if one was needed. Thank you everyone for the info and not ripping me a new one for posting something I obviously should have searched for.

There'll be another post just like this in a few months. No worries, sir.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

As an attorney, I think you don't need one, under most circumstances, but under SOME circumstances it could make your life easier. Such as, if the gun you bought turned out to be a "crime gun" or "stolen gun" and cops find YOU in possession of it, and want to investigate you as a possible thief or criminal. It would be very helpful to have a bill of sale signed by the seller. It would also be good just to have the contact info on the seller and some notes you kept about who sold you the gun, and when, even if there is not also a "Billow Sail" document with the other guy's signature.

As a seller of a gun, you may want to get a B.O.S. in case that gun is later used by the buyer to do a crime, and the gun is traced back to you (easy if you filled out the form 4473 on it, at your local gun store or pawn shop). Imagine that happened and you got SUED for allegedly being NEGLIGENT for selling to a buyer that (unknown to you) was a mentally unstable person, a federally disqualified "prohibited person" or otherwise had some issues that prevented this person from buying his own gun directly from some FFL dealer. A plaintiff's personal injury attorney can allege that you were negligent in the sale, and that if you'd only demanded to see I.D. and have the buyer sign a bill of sale, THAT would have scared him off and he never would have gotten the murder weapon.

Oh, you says that this never happens in real life, such lawsuits don't get filed? Well, my responses to that are

(1) we don't know how many such lawsuits are filed without doing some research, and if you search legal databases for reported cases, you'll only find caselaw from appellate courts, not trial-level courts. Being sued can be a major P. in the A. and a great expense to you to answer it and begin defending yourself, even if the case later ends in your favor and the plaintiff accepts that without appealing.

(2) Keep in mind that law is a BUSINESS and a plaintiff's attorney would not sue you unless you have lots of money, or an insurance policy that covers your negligence regarding selling your personal property. Without "deep pockets" there is not much incentive to sue. However, I would not want to do something that a court and jury could see as negligent based only on the idea that I don't have enough assets to be worth suing.