Aliens definitely exist, say legitimate scientists

[Stuckon22]

No, squarely at Stuckon....but if you wanted to make it about you, I'm sure that would pour more gas on the fire

Huh? Let gutter mouth(Biosnot) explain since he posted and scampered away, seemed he was a little jealous and needed to kick the dog tonight. Thought he was killing 2 birds with one stone. Does not matter. Post an article, wait for feedback, then insult and act like a girl spurned. Thought this one was going to be interesting. Good night Brethren!

 

[Constitution Hour]

The probability is infinite and no reasonable mathematician would try to say otherwise. Life happened we know that much by observation (or we think we do at least) The variables to determine the probability of abiogenisis are just as infinite, which is why I asked about the time frame required for it to occur in a previous post. Because we have not been able to generate organic life from inorganic material under any conditions we do not know what conditions are required to do so. We assume it can be done based in part on eveolution. I was told that the origin of organic life has zero to do with evolution. I disagree as the theory of evolution is much,much broader than macro or micro evolution and does indeed encompass the origin of life and the origin of matter. Without matter there is no life and nothing to evolve. It is all relative.

 

[Stuckon22]

No, squarely at Stuckon....but if you wanted to make it about you, I'm sure that would pour more gas on the fire

TIC, lol...Dumb and Dumber...

 

[dunkel]

The difference is the number of voters is a FINITE and KNOWN number (withing a certain margin of error). The number of planets, the number of planets that 'could' support life etc... (all the variables in the video) are all unknown. But all that aside, the biggest thing of all, the probability of life generating itself, even if we KNEW that the conditions to support life (let's say 'earth like') did in fact exist for certain on at least one planet is still completely unknown. All of that make any assumption about life on another planet using 'math' completely irrelevant. Hence my question about why you would say it's a "mathematical certainty'?

Isn't the number of life supporting planets also finite, even if it's not known? I would also point out that while the number of registered voters may be known, the number of actual voters isn't...but that doesn't stop us from relying, to some degree anyway, on polling data for various purposes.

However...again, you do have a point...perhaps we should watch our terminology. I think that even using very conservative numbers, the vastness of the universe means that, in practical terms, we can call it "certain". We do know what makes life possible, we know there are other planets, we know some of those planets have at least some of those requirements. It's not as if it's a complete WAG. I wouldn't say that it's "completely irrelevant".

Whether it's a "theoretical certainty" or whatever...my point remains...the numbers can say whatever they say...but I don't actually think of it as "real" until some hard evidence shows up.

 

[Constitution Hour]

Can we really say the number of planets with the required elements for life is finite? Yes it is unknown but given the infinite Universe can we not assume the number of Earth like planets is also infinite?

 

[dunkel]

The probability is infinite and no reasonable mathematician would try to say otherwise. Life happened we know that much by observation (or we think we do at least) The variables to determine the probability of abiogenisis are just as infinite, which is why I asked about the time frame required for it to occur in a previous post. Because we have not been able to generate organic life from inorganic material under any conditions we do not know what conditions are required to do so. We assume it can be done based in part on eveolution. I was told that the origin of organic life has zero to do with evolution. I disagree as the theory of evolution is much,much broader than macro or micro evolution and does indeed encompass the origin of life and the origin of matter. Without matter there is no life and nothing to evolve. It is all relative.

But it's true...evolution says absolutely zero about the origin of life. However it got here, evolution just describes what's happened since life popped up...again, however that may have happened.

And just because we haven't created life in the lab doesn't mean we must resort to a supernatural explanation. Fwiw, we have created amino acids in the lab. The experiment wasn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment

My question is...even if when we get to the point that we create a living cell from scratch in the lab...will this affect your belief in a god?

 

[dunkel]

Can we really say the number of planets with the required elements for life is finite? Yes it is unknown but given the infinite Universe can we not assume the number of Earth like planets is also infinite?

Well, now we're starting to get into a whole new discussion. If we allow for an infinite universe, then yes, life elsewhere is most certainly, well, a certainty...given an infinite number of chances, right?

 

[GeauxLSU]

Isn't the number of life supporting planets also finite, even if it's not known? I would also point out that while the number of registered voters may be known, the number of actual voters isn't...but that doesn't stop us from relying, to some degree anyway, on polling data for various purposes.

However...again, you do have a point...perhaps we should watch our terminology. I think that even using very conservative numbers, the vastness of the universe means that, in practical terms, we can call it "certain". We do know what makes life possible, we know there are other planets, we know some of those planets have at least some of those requirements. It's not as if it's a complete WAG. I wouldn't say that it's "completely irrelevant".

Whether it's a "theoretical certainty" or whatever...my point remains...the numbers can say whatever they say...but I don't actually think of it as "real" until some hard evidence shows up.

I would agree...the numbers do indicate that alien life is mathematically certain.

Yes the number of planets is known, but we don't know what the percentage is of ALL planets that support life is. (Unlike we do know a voter polled at an exit poll definitely voted for somebody.) The number of other planets that have life on them (intelligent or otherwise) very well COULD be zero. Or it could be relatively high but none of them could be at the age that they have life (either too young OR too old). We could just as easily say "It is a mathematical certainty that there is an actual 'planet of the apes' out there somewhere that is exactly like the movies".
I guess the bolded parts are where we'll just disagree.

 

[Constitution Hour]

But it's true...evolution says absolutely zero about the origin of life. However it got here, evolution just describes what's happened since life popped up...again, however that may have happened.

And just because we haven't created life in the lab doesn't mean we must resort to a supernatural explanation. Fwiw, we have created amino acids in the lab. The experiment wasn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment

My question is...even if when we get to the point that we create a living cell from scratch in the lab...will this affect your belief in a god?

No it would not. I refer to my past comment "get your own dirt" simplistic perhaps but to the point all the same. Yes I know about the Amino acids and that is a far cry from creating a living cell.
When you say from scratch you mean using the materials that already exist. When man is able to create matter from nothing,then you will have my attention. However simply finding nothing is a challenge all by itself.

 

[Constitution Hour]

Yes the number of planets is known, but we don't know what the percentage is of ALL planets that support life is. (Unlike we do know a voter polled at an exit poll definitely voted for somebody.) The number of other planets that have life on them (intelligent or otherwise) very well COULD be zero. Or it could be relatively high but none of them could be at the age that they have life (either too young OR too old). We could just as easily say "It is a mathematical certainty that there is an actual 'planet of the apes' out there somewhere that is exactly like the movies".
I guess the bolded parts are where we'll just disagree.

Are you sure about that statement? Did we find the edge of the universe while I was surfing ODT? Dang I missed that one.