Aliens definitely exist, say legitimate scientists

[dunkel]

No it would not. I refer to my past comment "get your own dirt" simplistic perhaps but to the point all the same. Yes I know about the Amino acids and that is a far cry from creating a living cell.
When you say from scratch you mean using the materials that already exist. When man is able to create matter from nothing,then you will have my attention. However simply finding nothing is a challenge all by itself.

Actually, even if we could actually create matter from "nothing"...I'm quite sure that still wouldn't shake your belief, would it? Because there is no way to absolutely rule out a supernatural entity.

 

[dunkel]

Yes the number of planets is known, but we don't know what the percentage is of ALL planets that support life is. (Unlike we do know a voter polled at an exit poll definitely voted for somebody.) The number of other planets that have life on them (intelligent or otherwise) very well COULD be zero. Or it could be relatively high but none of them could be at the age that they have life (either too young OR too old). We could just as easily say "It is a mathematical certainty that there is an actual 'planet of the apes' out there somewhere that is exactly like the movies".
I guess the bolded parts are where we'll just disagree.

Disagree all you want. It's like I said...these aren't wild ass guesses...we do know that there are Earth-like planets, we know water exists out there, we know there are Sun-like stars, etc. Plug in whatever tiny numbers you want and the results still come back greater than zero...which is what this claim really is.

 

[GeauxLSU]

Disagree all you want. It's like I said...these aren't wild ass guesses...we do know that there are Earth-like planets, we know water exists out there, we know there are Sun-like stars, etc. Plug in whatever tiny numbers you want and the results still come back greater than zero...which is what this claim really is.

And none of that has anything to do with the chance such a planet would support life. Going the other way of course is the assumption that all life is carbon based. That 'tiny number' you are talking about is the big ASSUMPTION you are making based on nothing. You just ASSUME there MUST be life due to sheer numbers. We have no evidence or 'math' that supports such a baseless assumption. If there was one more KNOWN planet with life on it, THEN you could make some assumptions and extrapolate.

 

[GeauxLSU]

Are you sure about that statement? Did we find the edge of the universe while I was surfing ODT? Dang I missed that one.

Sorry I meant 'finite' (which was his assumption) not 'known'. It's getting late (for me anyway).

 

[Constitution Hour]

That is true, I do not wish to temp fate but given my personal experience, you would be hard pressed to shake my faith.
However I do not believe that "nothing" even exists. In fact nothing would be something, wouldn't it?
This, for me at least is the interesting question. Where did matter come from, where did God come from.
I said before Hawking has said there is no begining, there just is. I find the entire process (thinking,pondering self and all that is) very profound and gratifying. It is what makes us human isn't it? A spirit of wanting knowledge, a desire to understand what we do not know. I know we have traded jabs at times and I would like to think most of that is due to a lack of understanding on our part. A BS in communications is great, now we need a BS in understanding. I suppose that is what we are working on here. I know it might not seem like it at times, but I respect you Dunkel,even if I do not like your stated goal of destroying a persons faith in God. I suppose true faith will remain un shaken.

 

[Constitution Hour]

OK so what is it that limits the number of posible planets? The amount of matter in the universe? Any numbers on that, of course not. We do not even know if many of the planets,stars even still exist given the distance from our ability to observe them. We migh be observing light from a long dead broken up entity. The universe is,as far as we know, infinite and as such the number of possible material bodies are also infinite. We assume everything has a begining and also and end. Hard to imagine anything else with a finite mind.

 

[dunkel]

And none of that has anything to do with the chance such a planet would support life. Going the other way of course is the assumption that all life is carbon based. That 'tiny number' you are talking about is the big ASSUMPTION you are making based on nothing. You just ASSUME there MUST be life due to sheer numbers. We have no evidence or 'math' that supports such a baseless assumption. If there was one more KNOWN planet with life on it, THEN you could make some assumptions and extrapolate.

Well we know that Earth has life...so it stands to reason that other planets with Earth-like conditions would also support life, doesn't it? It's not simply an "assumption" that life exists in the universe...it's an absolute certainty cause here we are discussing the possibility. Furthermore, it's not merely an "assumption" that life needs certain requirements...again, we are the living proof that life can exist in the presence of water, light, gravity, etc.

Now, if you want to bust my balls over the use of the term "mathematically certain", fine. Given the numbers we have and the information available, it's possible to work up a reasonable equation that makes it a "mathematical certainty". However, as I said before...that's all well and good, but it's all just numbers on paper until ET actually shows up somewhere.

 

[dunkel]

That is true, I do not wish to temp fate but given my personal experience, you would be hard pressed to shake my faith.
However I do not believe that "nothing" even exists. In fact nothing would be something, wouldn't it?
This, for me at least is the interesting question. Where did matter come from, where did God come from.
I said before Hawking has said there is no begining, there just is. I find the entire process (thinking,pondering self and all that is) very profound and gratifying. It is what makes us human isn't it? A spirit of wanting knowledge, a desire to understand what we do not know. I know we have traded jabs at times and I would like to think most of that is due to a lack of understanding on our part. A BS in communications is great, now we need a BS in understanding. I suppose that is what we are working on here. I know it might not seem like it at times, but I respect you Dunkel,even if I do not like your stated goal of destroying a persons faith in God. I suppose true faith will remain un shaken.

Well alrighty then, I'll go along with that

 

[GeauxLSU]

Well we know that Earth has life...so it stands to reason that other planets with Earth-like conditions would also support life, doesn't it? It's not simply an "assumption" that life exists in the universe...it's an absolute certainty cause here we are discussing the possibility. Furthermore, it's not merely an "assumption" that life needs certain requirements...again, we are the living proof that life can exist in the presence of water, light, gravity, etc.

There is a huge difference between 'would' and 'could'. HUGE. By discussing something it becomes certain?!?!? Huh?!?!? It's obviously time for bed. Have a great one Dunk.

 

[bambam]

When we "see" other Earth like planets, they are thousands, millions of light years from us. When do not know what they look like today, at out present instant. Perhaps they are not even ther anymore.