What you have is an excuse for the ATF to go rummaging through all your sh*t looking for something to tag you with. :0)
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WTF? How are these guys in business?
- Thread starter codygarcia
- Start date
One could certainly argue that the NFA classifications are stupid and one who is not already familiar with their ridiculous definitions and subsequent precedents could very easily break one of those arbitrary laws.
They are stupid, but they are the law. Ignorance and personal feelings are no excuse. I feel most speeding and seatbelt laws are stupid, doesnt change the fact they are laws.
You missed my point. Seatbelt and speed limit laws are hard to be ignorant of. Unless someone seeks out the information on NFA items they will not be given that info openly until they get a phone call or a knock at their door. Not to mention how vague and confusing they are.
And regarding ignorance not being an excuse, there isn't a person on this Earth that hasn't done something wrong or messed up due to ignorance. Anyone that wants to sit on a high horse and still say otherwise should be sure to check their own footing.
IMO, with the ATF or whatever they call themselves, it isn't legal statutes that most people need to be concerned with; it is the subjective interpretation of nebulous or unclear, unlegislated 'rulings' on which they base their edicts. This whole deal about 'public comment' on proposed-this-or-that potential rule changes, modifications or otherwise is nothing but a pretense to make the unsuspecting citizen think that agency has their rights and betterment in mind. They do not.
It is no ones responsibility to look after someone else's ass because they don't have enough sense to look up a gun law. Whos responsibility is it to look up and understand another states carry law before entering? I frequent Alabama so I know their carry law just like Georgia. You say its hard to be ignorant of seatbelt and speeding but thats only because its been ingrained into you, someone from another country comes here and doesnt know the law could easily be in violation and not know it. Whose fault is that? The auto dealer that sold them the car? The government for not informing them? No, its that persons responsibility and only theirs.
ATF's doctrine of "constructive possession" regarding shoulder stocks and firearms that were sold as handguns is not new or novel. It's been well-established law for 30 years. The US Supreme Court even ruled on it, and found that the only reason a Thompson Center single shot weapon was not a "short-barreled rifle" when the person possesses a shoulder stock for it is because that shoulder stock was acquired at the same time as a rifle length barrel over 16 inches.
So, clearly, the stock has a legal purpose when the shoulder stock is used in conjunction with the extra long barrel.
QUOTE from a gun rights lawyer's website, summarizing the SCOTUS decision:
Justice Souter wrote that “a set of parts that could be used to make nothing but a short-barreled rifle” would, if there is an “aggregation” of such, be a short-barreled rifle. The opinion states that “a combination of parts that could only be assembled into an NFA-regulated firearm” would be such a firearm.[1] Further, a non-NFA gun becomes an NFA firearm if “placed together with a further part or parts that would have no use in association with the gun except to convert it into a firearm.” As examples, the court mentions a carbine with a machinegun conversion kit,[2] and a pistol and attachable shoulder stock found in different drawers of the same dresser.
Source:
https://stephenhalbrook.com/thompson/
So, clearly, the stock has a legal purpose when the shoulder stock is used in conjunction with the extra long barrel.
QUOTE from a gun rights lawyer's website, summarizing the SCOTUS decision:
Justice Souter wrote that “a set of parts that could be used to make nothing but a short-barreled rifle” would, if there is an “aggregation” of such, be a short-barreled rifle. The opinion states that “a combination of parts that could only be assembled into an NFA-regulated firearm” would be such a firearm.[1] Further, a non-NFA gun becomes an NFA firearm if “placed together with a further part or parts that would have no use in association with the gun except to convert it into a firearm.” As examples, the court mentions a carbine with a machinegun conversion kit,[2] and a pistol and attachable shoulder stock found in different drawers of the same dresser.
Source:
https://stephenhalbrook.com/thompson/
I feel you think we are on differing sides of the issue. Overall we are in agreement. Yes, it is always a person's individual responsibility to know the law. And local speed limits are something we know through repetition, but everyone knows that there is a speed limit and the large majority of traffic laws because they are widely and openly given out.
But to not know of what changes a pistol to an SBR or from a shotgun to an AOW is completely understandable. Those are not concepts the general non-shooting public isn't even remotely aware of.
To be indifferent of such ignorance is almost like laughing at a child for touching a hot stove "cause they should have known better" If they had been told before, yeah that's on them. But until you start getting really into guns, there is no billboard, no sign, no other entity giving you the chance to know before you screw yourself.
I agree with you. If the ATF cannot conclusively and justifiably cite legislated statutes that SPECIFICALLY deal with their interminable 'rulings and interpretations' then how can the regular citizen be expected to do so. These people are evil and they use base statute laws as their justifications and expect the rest of the leftist government to agree with them - not one law enacted or ruling justified with substantive specificity.....it's criminal, IMO.
you guys could always use a handgun like it was intended to be used, as a handgun
go get a carbine if you want. i promise you it will collect dust just fine too
go get a carbine if you want. i promise you it will collect dust just fine too
