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shootout with the BATFE in AR
- Thread starter SpeedyR
- Start date
Just watched a YouTube video this morning. Interview with a former ATF agent who left the agency just after Obama took power. He saw the changes in targeting quite well. He was gung ho in the early days infiltrating gangs and really taking down bad guys. He saw (as we have) the way the agency is used against the second amendment community.
Absolutely no reason for the ATF to go in like this. This guy wasn't a hardened gang-banger, but a guy with a nice house in a good neighborhood who was in a responsible job. They could have walked up and rang the doorbell.
By definition they knew he had guns available, so they think a raid before sunup won't get them shot at?!?
This kind of entry may be required in maybe 1% of the cases it used in. I can see it in a hostage situation for example, where lives are at stake.
But serving a warrant should never involve kicking down someone's door.
By definition they knew he had guns available, so they think a raid before sunup won't get them shot at?!?
This kind of entry may be required in maybe 1% of the cases it used in. I can see it in a hostage situation for example, where lives are at stake.
But serving a warrant should never involve kicking down someone's door.
Agree. This is rural Arkansas and they are kicking in his door before 6:00 a.m.. Did they really expect the welcome mat to be rolled out for them? The man probably thought he was being robbed. Seems to me they could have pulled him over in a simple traffic stop on his way to work, made the arrest, then served the warrant on his house and premises. Unless there are factors that have not been disclosed, this seems like an unnecessary display of force on the part of the ATF.
Waco ring a bell with anyone?
I am retired LEO and if I was tasked with arresting and searching g this guys house I would have went to his office at airport and arrested him with no fuss and returned to his house to execute the Search Warrant unless there was something In play here i don't know about . Safer for my men , safer for his family as well as him .
There is no more dangerous place to confront an armed person than his house where he has a tactical advantage over you .
There is no more dangerous place to confront an armed person than his house where he has a tactical advantage over you .
That's the thing... you keep hearing that these explosive entries are for 'officer safety', but it seems a lot more likely that they are literally putting cops in the line of fire.
I know if someone kicks down my door at any time of day they will be met with a load of buckshot, I don't care if they are yelling 'police' or not. There's way too many cases of fake cops out there doing home invasions.
On the flip side, if they ring the doorbell, allow me to examine/verify their credentials and warrant, I'll happily cooperate and let my lawyer straighten it all out. Seems like a far less risky proposition for both the 'civilian' and the cops.
This is the same type of thing that seems to happen a lot with police chases. Innocent people getting killed because some cop decided chasing down a stolen car was a life-or-death matter.
Public opinion on that seems to have changed a lot of departments rules about chases now. We really need the same kind of outcry about these kinds of raids.
I know if someone kicks down my door at any time of day they will be met with a load of buckshot, I don't care if they are yelling 'police' or not. There's way too many cases of fake cops out there doing home invasions.
On the flip side, if they ring the doorbell, allow me to examine/verify their credentials and warrant, I'll happily cooperate and let my lawyer straighten it all out. Seems like a far less risky proposition for both the 'civilian' and the cops.
This is the same type of thing that seems to happen a lot with police chases. Innocent people getting killed because some cop decided chasing down a stolen car was a life-or-death matter.
Public opinion on that seems to have changed a lot of departments rules about chases now. We really need the same kind of outcry about these kinds of raids.
From what I read there was no arrest warrant - just a search warrant. They didn't have to kill this man just knock on the door during the DAYTIME like the SEARCH warrant said and enter and search. He wasn't going to be arrested.
