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ATF being sued over approving legal machine guns

Meh... pretty sure it wasn't an admin error when we have multiple form 1s approved from different reviewers. The Texas one had more then a decades experience (Think it was the Texas one)

Also they've allowed other post 86 machine guns, see the sur reply in the Texas case with proof.

Also the DOJ seems to be arguing we can ban them because their unusual....because we banned them. So with strict scrutiny their SOL. Intermediate, not sure but our side seems to have the better argument, though I am biased.
 
I see their point, but I can tell you what the ATF will counter with (if this even makes it to trial-which I doubt.)

They will say that the examiner didn't possess the authority to issue a form 1 to a non-manufacturer. There fore it is invalid. They will further argue that the individual in question was not a dealer or manufacturer-and as such could not have held a valid form 1 in any case. I bet they will try to prosecute this guy for some attempt at falsifying documents or some such. I bet hidden within the app somewhere is language verifying that you are legally able to manufacture such a gun-which this guy clearly is not.

It is disappointing, but I think the govt will win-easily. Not because they have the better case morally, but because they are the govt and they hold all the cards. (And they have scary good lawyers. The smartest lawyer I have ever known said he wasn't scared of anything-except the kind of lawyers the feds send to trials.)

Now-if discovery were to happen, and they were to find other individuals who had a form1 which was issued in this manner, and they actually built the gun and were not prosecuted-and the statute of limitations had run out, they may have an argument to being able to keep the gun. But that kind of argument is tenuous at best-and at worst, it could buy those guys 10 years in the slammy.

Personally, I wouldn't go near this thing with a 10 ft pole. Form 1 or not, I ain't willing to risk 10 years with Bubba for building something like this.

My overall opinion is that an act of congress trumps whatever any administrative agency does-by a long shot. I think the only chance this sort of thing has would be in front of the supreme court-and honestly, I would like to keep this NFA stuff far away from the supreme court. Those bastards might do something crazy.

I think the chances of them unraveling the NFA or any of this stuff are very low. In my opinion, there is a far greater chance of some federal judge getting a burr under his saddle about "what the hell is an NFA trust anyhow?" I think there is a great risk of something like this putting an end to those trusts. Maybe not this particular case-but something. Those trusts get into uncomfortable territory if you ask me.
 
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There is no trial for this kind of suit- both parties will submit their arguments, counter arguments and, if the judge allows, counters to the counter. It's then at the discretion of the judge to rule just on the submitted arguments or to allow oral arguments. In the Texas case she is allowing oral arguments, in the PA case we are still waiting.
 
Kaikias said:
There is no trial for this kind of suit- both parties will submit their arguments, counter arguments and, if the judge allows, counters to the counter. It's then at the discretion of the judge to rule just on the submitted arguments or to allow oral arguments. In the Texas case she is allowing oral arguments, in the PA case we are still waiting.
Click to expand...


So it is an administrative law judge?
 
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