60-year-old man shot and killed by narcotics agents - Paulding CO.

[attison]

Very well:

1. They knew this man was 60 years old and probably alone inthe home.
I am 54 and am still a dangerous man if needs be. I plan on still being one when I'm 60.
I certainly hope, for your sake, that you haven't been a crack head for the majority of those years, making you a slow, easy target.

Really!!!! Obviously you have never known any crack/meth heads........they aint slow. Most crack/meth heads I have dealt with are very very paranoid and usually have firearms near or on them. And yes I have dealt with them a lot.

2. They knew he had drug related priors but not weapons priors.
So what? There's always a first time and it's not the responsibility of LE to get killed proving it.
Would'a, could'a, should'a is a Barney Fife defense, at best.

Correct, it is no defense...........you have no clue what was there or what went on.

3. They had a small army burst into the home and no reports of flash grenades or other goodies, etc., we buy by the ton for them was used.
So you think flash bangs are always called for?
So, massive numbers of .223 rounds and flash grenades are their only weapons? When all you have is a hammer, everything appears to be a nail...


Define small army? 223's and flash bangs? Wow I guess you were in the stack huh. You know so much from your couch don't you.

4. The lighting used to "shine the perp" was woefully inadequate, indicating either poor training/execution and/or organization by the "army".
I don't care how good or bad the lighting was. If he brings his hands up aggressively with something in them in this situation, he gets shot. I don't expect LE to read the label directions to determine if what he has is dangerous. BTW, ANYTHING that is designed to disable a person in this situation IS dangerous.
Educate me, please. How many rounds did it take to "disable" him?

How do you know the "lighting situation"? Again, sit on your couch and tell us the three things...... How do you know their training? YOU DONT! Obviously, you sir are the SWAT god and know it all! Tell us of all your many exploits and raids. I bet you were on the bin laden raid since you know so much. Leave your number and I will make sure the next time someone decides to do a raid/warrant execution they call you for advice.

I succumb to your logic, kind sir, and leave this discussion for those more patient and wise.
I wasn't there. You weren't there. We are, at best, guessing and hissing for no reason. Have a wonderful day and weekend.

You know, that is probably THE smartest thing I have seen you type. Have a good weekend.

 

[crash_6906]

Soooo...... Just curiously, if some of you guys are carrying and someone starts to attack you with OC spray, what are you gonna do?

 

[attison]

Soooo...... Just curiously, if some of you guys are carrying and someone starts to attack you with OC spray, what are you gonna do?

I am going to shoot him! OC renders my sight useless for a lil bit (like and hour or so).

 

[dunkel]

If I am executing a search warrant and someone raises a dark object and points it in my direction I am not going to waste valuable time trying to figure out what he is holding in his hands. Ever seen any improvised firearms? I have seen a .22 inside of a cell phone. Number one rule is to go home to your loved ones at night.

If that's your number one rule, perhaps you shouldn't be in the public service.

 

[HogSWAT]

First of all, the war on drugs is a tremendous failure. Our government use it to pass laws like the Patriot act that whittle our rights and liberties away dramatically. Drugs being illegal supports the prison for profit industry and the business of police departments seizing assets and cash, for some departments they couldn't survive with out those seizures.

Legalize Cocaine, pot, heroin, meth and mushrooms.. Regulate sales and where they are manufactured. It would be %1000 more effective in keeping them out of children's hands and keeping meth labs and grow houses out of our neighborhoods..

Our police forces are turning into para military hit squads and we are becoming less and less free because of another failed attempt at prohibition. Drug lords, traffickers, prisons for profit and the government are making a financial killing with drugs being illegal at the citizens expense, no two ways about it.

Don't want to do drugs, dont do them, dont want your kids to do drugs, be a good parent.. Let the druggies do drugs, when they commit a crime on drugs or under the influence, put them in jail. DOING drugs shouldn't be a crime. Selling drugs should be taxed, making drugs should be regulated like any other dangerous chemical manufactures is..

The guy had pepper spray in his hands, use your training, hi powered lights and IDENTIFY 100% that is a ACTUAL danger to your life, then kill him. If that's too much to pull off, get another job. If it cant KILL you, man the hell up, and take a shot of pepper spray.. Absolutely NO need to KILL a guy for possibly making you mildly uncomfortable for a half hour. Being a cop is dangerous, and at times a crappy job, but you chose it. Man up. A gun, a knife, blast away. What if it was lemon juice, I mean that could sting a lil? Shoot to kill? Ive been in about a dozen CS gas chambers and it DOES suck, but you CAN function for long enough to disarm the guy with PEPPER spray.. Ridiculous. More and more I hear LEO's on these forums justifying killing civilians and dogs under the 'gotta go home safe' crap.. Shoot first and sort it out later..I'm ALL FOR COPS going home to their family's, get that straight, but.. The JOB is dangerous and you cant shoot everything that MIGHT harm you. Your gonna have to take some bumps n bruises IMO. What happened to a tazer? ID it as Pepper and zap the crap out of him??

Im not a cop hater, at all. Im not happy with the system that they work in tho, Im not happy with how we deal with drugs and drug users.. The WOD, the Patriot act, biggest threat to the average citizens freedom we have ever had on our soil.. Bar none.

 

[snake dr]

I have actually been shot.

You a BAD MAN snake dr. LOL! You are SO tough because you are willing to go down in a hail of gunfire. We are all SO IMPRESSED!

Of course this shows a complete lack of common sense, too.

Have you ever actually been shot at?

 

[snake dr]

It's nice to know that you are a true liberal. The war on drugs is stupid and has accomplished nothing but innocent folks getting caught up in the crossfire. The next thing you know it will be common practice for the po po to bust up in your house whenever they take a notion. (Oops my bad, wrong house, sorry about shooting your dog and traumatizing your children, have a nice day).

Compare this to the fact that there are so many ignorant people that think the DNR has the right to wander around on private property without permission.

When the door gets kicked, there want be any time for talk and they want have to wait to get shot.

It's easy to stay alive, don't be kicking in my door.
There is always the option of knocking.

This was a good shoot. The warrant was legit, the guy did not follow orders and made an aggressive move with something in his hand. What is LE supposed to do, wait until they are actually being shot at?!

It's easy to stay alive if LE kicks your door in. Just do what the hell you're told to do! You can sort out the details AFTER everyone is confidant that nobody is about to die.

 

[snake dr]

XX2

Who gives a **** about drugs anymore? Can't they see that no matter how much they try to stop it it keeps growing? Let the idiots kill themselves or get killed by people when the druggies try to steal their stuff for money. Or just legalize it and get rid of the dealers. Your never going to stop them so quit wasting money trying.

 

[snake dr]

Would be OK if I kicked your door in at 3:00 am and hollered POLICE?
Would you immediately curl up in the fetal position?

I dunno about you guys but ive had the police point guns at me. First thing I did before I even thought about anything else.... hand in the air. Reaching for something is dumb. Not to mention you can tell me he did not hear them yell... "police" or "search warrant"

 

[snake dr]

It just doesn't work that way. The burden of proof to convict someone is very stringent. If search warrants had the same standard they basically would not exist. What is needed for a search warrant is not proof, but rather, strong reasonable cause to believe. If there is enough proof to convict someone the warrant would be for arrest, not search.

A simple example of "reasonable cause to believe" would be this:
LE pulls someone over. When they run the ID they find out the guy is a convicted felon. They see what looks like a gun on the front seat in the car. Because this felon is not allowed to be in possession of a gun, the LEO now has reasonable cause to believe the driver is committing a crime, thus he can search the car to inspect the firearm. He does NOT have enough evidence to arrest the person UNTIL he inspects the firearm. He could discover it is a toy and the person was not breaking the law at all, but the search was legit even though no crime was committed.

The po po should shoot the felon dead, and then figure out it was a toy.
This would be a good shoot because the guy was a felon.