ODT it's time to get serious..training and tactics 101. School the whole dang forum.

[cmshoot]

In regards to a backstop, for me that would depend on the totality of the circumstances. If it's a true active situation, the bad guy is launching rounds at things I don't want him to hit, I'm engaging. Included within "totality of circumstances" are your personal capabilities.

 

[Jack O A T]

I'm not a professional or even all that proficient (everything is relative) but competing in club tactical shoots, IDPA, and now starting 3 gun has greatly increased my speed, confidence and capability. Training in your own environment on your own time schedule is important, but I find the competition environment adds the element of stress and forces you to think and adapt. I see that as vital to enhancing your preparedness for an actual use of force situation.

I've heard some trainers caution students about competition and being lulled into "gaming" and automatic responses, but as long as you are aware of those pitfalls, I think competition can be a great asset. I believe it has been for me.

 

[cmshoot]

I'm all for competitive shooting sports. Shooting USPSA made me a better overall shooter.

 

[10thmountain]

Besides concealed, I keep a well oiled m4 with me depending on which vehicle I'm in and my schedule. It is likely with me 85% of the time. It's up to aware people to help protect others and end threats.

How expensive of an M4? I think a reliable low/mid range rig would do the trick.

 

[mgonza]

In regards to a backstop, for me that would depend on the totality of the circumstances. If it's a true active situation, the bad guy is launching rounds at things I don't want him to hit, I'm engaging. Included within "totality of circumstances" is your personal capabilities.

A stray round that kills anyone besides the enemy will not be considered justifiable homicide...
Capabilities or not, things happen.

 

[cmshoot]

No such thing as a "stray round". There are, however, rounds that fail to hit the target due to an error in the shooter's part. That's why I said that you need to be cognizant of your own capabilities.

If an active shooter is dropping innocents, or first responders, then back stop is a lesser consideration to STOPPING THE THREAT WHO IS ACTIVELY SHOOTING PEOPLE.

If you don't feel comfortable doing that in a certain situation then you have recognized the limits of your capabilities. As for me, that is EXACTLY the job I have trained for, and train others in, for the past 13+ years. If I'm at work, and I have to engage a threat, I can 100% guarantee that I DO NOT have a safe back stop.

 

[mgonza]

No such thing as a "stray round". There are, however, rounds that fail to hit the target due to an error in the shooter's part. That's why I said that you need to be cognizant of your own capabilities.

If an active shooter is dropping innocents, or first responders, then back stop is a lesser consideration to STOPPING THE THREAT WHO IS ACTIVELY SHOOTING PEOPLE.

If you don't feel comfortable doing that in a certain situation then you have recognized the limits of your capabilities. As for me, that is EXACTLY the job I have trained for, and train others in, for the past 13+ years. If I'm at work, and I have to engage a threat, I can 100% guarantee that I DO NOT have a safe back stop.

ok

 

[protective measures]

No such thing as a "stray round". There are, however, rounds that fail to hit the target due to an error in the shooter's part. That's why I said that you need to be cognizant of your own capabilities.

If an active shooter is dropping innocents, or first responders, then back stop is a lesser consideration to STOPPING THE THREAT WHO IS ACTIVELY SHOOTING PEOPLE.

If you don't feel comfortable doing that in a certain situation then you have recognized the limits of your capabilities. As for me, that is EXACTLY the job I have trained for, and train others in, for the past 13+ years. If I'm at work, and I have to engage a threat, I can 100% guarantee that I DO NOT have a safe back stop.

Hence the old saying, "The best backstop is the bad guy".

Once on a protective detail when I was accompanying the principal, our surveillance guy informed me that the party with whom the T.P.O. had been taken out against was breaking it & was en route to our position.

After a quick scan of the area & while getting the principal to a safe place it dawned on me how much glass & concrete (both possible cover & ricochet points) there was. Funny how that old saying about the best backstop popped into my head.

Fortunately it worked out to the good... but I agree with cmshoot that in most all situations stopping a threat who is actively trying to take lives on purpose is of higher priority than worrying about an errant shot.

If you hit an innocent you will be held accountable which is a good reason to train to the level where you have both the confidence & competence to make high percentage shots under elevated stress.

It is challenging to balance the practice of proper tactics with competitive shooting but approaching both with the proper mindset is key.

Right when I first started competing two very accomplished Instructors/ competitive shooters invited me to a competition I went to sign my name & my hand was shaking so hard due to adrenaline I could barely do it! I felt like I had a lot to lose reputation-wise & not much to gain but that was an excellent lesson in how comps. can have value.
Myself & others I know approach comps. as tactically as possible... or will go to the range soon thereafter & shoot/ practice proper tactics repetitively so as to not develop improper "range scars".
'

 

[Jack O A T]

...I felt like I had a lot to lose...& not much to gain...

Hmmmm, sounds like pretty much any use of force in a defensive situation. By that I mean you are fighting for what you already possess, not anything extra.

 

[Wolf six]

Glad you guys are awake. I'll get the coffee started