NFA under Trust approval

[No2sc2]

So I was wondering. If you have an approved form 4 for a NFA item and it was under a Trust, could the Trustee pick up the items or does the grantor have to? When answering about question number 1 about straw purchases, does that apply since its under a Trust?

 

[FredAlert]

My understanding was that the grantor was just the person that initiated the trust and trustees had full power over any property held by the trust.

 

[jcountry]

So I was wondering. If you have an approved form 4 for a NFA item and it was under a Trust, could the Trustee pick up the items or does the grantor have to? When answering about question number 1 about straw purchases, does that apply since its under a Trust?

I think this sort of thing could be considered a "straw purchase." I think the key here is not the instrument of ownership (trust,) but the act of possession. If whomever picks it up is not legally able to possess it, then I think the trust would offer no protection from being interpreted as a straw purchase.

I sure ain't no lawyer, but I would absolutely consult one for constructing any kind of trust. The ATF does not play games in this area. They prosecute ALL NFA violations, and have damn near a 100% conviction rate. Any money spent on a good NFA trust attorney would be a heck of a lot better than making some technical error and losing 10 years of your life in the slammy.

 

[Zastava]

Sounds like a question for your Attorney or an Attorney

 

[jcountry]

Sounds like a question for your Attorney or an Attorney

Yep-

My point exactly.

Not to try and throw stones, but PLEASE, folks-get an attorney.... It is just not worth the risk of things going sour. Everyone who goes down to "Bob" who knows just how to write up this sort of thing down at the gun shop could easily be going to an undercover agent who "ooops" inserted some minor technical flaw in each and every trust he created. "Bob" could also be an honest guy who does what he thinks is a great job, but includes a minor technical mistake with the same results.

Lawyers charge good money because they are supposed to be qualified at what they do. Who knows what "Bob's" qualifications are? At least get an NFA lawyer to draw up your first one. (Doesn't anyone else think it is strange that "Bob" down at the shop is at the very least practicing law without a license by drawing up a trust for you?)

(People are good at spotting shady or illegal things popping up in gun trading sites all the time. But, somehow for Class III stuff, no one seems to smell anything fishy. Please get a lawyer.)

 

[T-Roy]

With a trust no person own the item, it's owned by the trust. The trust is a legal entity on its own. The trustee(s) have full authority over trust property, so they should be able to pick it up. The beneficiary(ies) do not have this power as long as the grantor is still alive and would not be able to. (I am not a lawyer, but I did a ton of research before setting up my trust). You could also ask any NFA dealer if you wanted to confirm.

 

[galvatron]

Yep-

My point exactly.

Not to try and throw stones, but PLEASE, folks-get an attorney.... It is just not worth the risk of things going sour. Everyone who goes down to "Bob" who knows just how to write up this sort of thing down at the gun shop could easily be going to an undercover agent who "ooops" inserted some minor technical flaw in each and every trust he created. "Bob" could also be an honest guy who does what he thinks is a great job, but includes a minor technical mistake with the same results.

Lawyers charge good money because they are supposed to be qualified at what they do. Who knows what "Bob's" qualifications are? At least get an NFA lawyer to draw up your first one. (Doesn't anyone else think it is strange that "Bob" down at the shop is at the very least practicing law without a license by drawing up a trust for you?)

(People are good at spotting shady or illegal things popping up in gun trading sites all the time. But, somehow for Class III stuff, no one seems to smell anything fishy. Please get a lawyer.)

Tin foil hats anyone???

 

[jcountry]

With a trust no person own the item, it's owned by the trust. The trust is a legal entity on its own. The trustee(s) have full authority over trust property, so they should be able to pick it up. The beneficiary(ies) do not have this power as long as the grantor is still alive and would not be able to. (I am not a lawyer, but I did a ton of research before setting up my trust). You could also ask any NFA dealer if you wanted to confirm.

As long as the trustee is legally able to possess the item, I think you are right.

But, the OP had a question about a "straw purchase." I may have misread the question, but a "straw purchase" concerns the purchase of something for someone who is not legally able to possess that item in the first place. If they are able to legally possess, it would seem you would be OK. If they are not legally able to possess, then a trust would offer no protection for either party.

Sure, the trust owns the item.... But the same rules apply to possession as always have.

 

[T-Roy]

Tin foil hats anyone???

Entrapment, anyone???

 

[jcountry]

Tin foil hats anyone???

Go right ahead, if you think that seems straight up.

While you are at it, jump right on one of those ads you see here involving a sale to an out of state resident without fooling with FFLs. Or just hop right on one of those "3 pin" AK ads which pops up on gunbroker from time to time.

Tin foil hats don't prevent Bubba from making really good friends with people in prison.

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Entrapment, anyone???

Maybe, maybe not. Do you wish to spend 100K in federal court to figure that one out?