Another Dumb Question - This time - powders

[palmettomoon]

That was specifically why I noted IMR-4895 in the OP.

But also why I'm not intending to develop an 'optimized' hot round for the Garand. I'll be reloading for a single Lee Enfield and a single Mosin, and each of them have reloading quirks and characteristics specific to that type of gun and I'll have to cater for those too.

If possible, I'd like to be developing - for these fireams - ammo that doesn't unduly wear or stress the rifles and is capable of putting a round on paper at 100 yards. Not looking to reveal their inner tack-driver.

The 308 is a different issue. I've got a number of guns chambered in that - all modern - and I'll have a lot more latitude over optimizing loads for them.

Milsurps with good barrels I cast my own, gas check, size & lube, then load over 3031 or SR4769. All perform at 1-200 yards. 4064 is a fav too. All I use with .308. AR loads are H 335 for bulk 55 gr, H4895 for long range 600+ yards.

 

[gyppo]

OK,

So I've been doing a fair amount of research in general, and there's a lot of really sketchy advice out there on the internet - but the current situation with powder supply means that getting the powders cited in a reloading manual can be a real problem.

Example - I went out to try and find a good general purpose 30 caliber powder - ideally that would be 'pretty good' for 30-06, 303 British, 308 Win and 7.62 Russian. IMR-4895 looks like a good candidate. Now, 4895 isn't impossible to get, but I'm cheap and don't like paying hazmat fees.

So I think - what are the alternatives? - and then you get to see just how personal some reloaders get with their choices. So I discovered burn rate charts.

Now, I love all my fingers, but I'm also pretty analytical, so I take a look at the charts and can see that recommendations for alternatives really are clustered around IMR-4895. Is that REALLY the primary determinent of what might be a good alternative?

If I check out this: https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2023-burn-rate-chart.pdf - and look at entry 98, if I stay around that area in the chart (and load cautiously at first, checking for overpressure etc) - is that ALL there is to choosing alternatives?

.

 

[gyppo]

I would use Varget or H335 for all of the calibers you mentioned. H335 will meter better with a powder drop. H335 will be cheaper than Varget. More people love Varget so it is probably a little better for precision loads. I do not shoot enough precision to be able to make a valid statement on the best powder for precision reloads. On some of the calibers, loads for informal target rounds will be on the lower side of case fill. This will lead to some velocity deviations but nothing you will notice with novice shooters. Don’t believe the BS about low powder levels grenading a gun.

 

[rbstern]

IMR 4895 is my favorite rifle powder. 223, 30-30, 7.5x55 and 308 Win. I'm a plinker and a hunter, not a competitive shooter, so I don't worry about anything other than consistent velocities with good accuracy.

 

[BHPSteel]

I would use Varget or H335 for all of the calibers you mentioned. H335 will meter better with a powder drop. H335 will be cheaper than Varget. More people love Varget so it is probably a little better for precision loads. I do not shoot enough precision to be able to make a valid statement on the best powder for precision reloads. On some of the calibers, loads for informal target rounds will be on the lower side of case fill. This will lead to some velocity deviations but nothing you will notice with novice shooters. Don’t believe the BS about low powder levels grenading a gun.

Yeah, these are hardly precision rifles, but I did pick up a tub of Varget last week from TruPrep which will get me going. The amount of reloading I'm going to be doing for these battle rifles is probably 2-300 rounds over the next few months, so the higher cost of Varget isn't going to cripple me.

It's possible that once I start shooting more 308, I might look around at less expensive powders.

 

[Les638]

I’ve used a lot of different powders depending on load data ,cost, availability etc, currently I use win 748 for all things .30 cal , and I’ve rung steel @ 500 yards with a PSA gen2 Pa-10 and my eyes are old like the rest of me.

 

[Reloadhby]

I have probably over 30 different reloading manuals. Different years, manufacturers, etc. A lot of different powders will work with the same cartridge, just some better than others.

I have manuals that have load data for powders that the same manual the next edition may not. When I run into your issue, I will pull a hand full of manuals and go through them to see what else I have will work then develop it.

 

[YOTESHOOTER]

Varget, H414, BLC-2, have served us well, however like said earlier every gun is sometimes very picky about what it likes.... So each gun can be a journey of time, patience, and a lot of adventure, and even more bench time than ever imagined so do not rush the journey you will travel...

 

[BHPSteel]

I must admit, I was a little surprised when this thread resurrected itself recently, so I'd like to take the opportunity to thank everyone who contributed because you drove me off in a number of informative (and some quite fruitful) directions.

Since the original posting, my primary mission has been accomplished.

I've found that all my milsurp rifles are running on reloads that group better than I'd hoped - they all chrono at about 10% lower velocity than published service velocity and more consistently too. I'm getting groups well within 4MOA, which is what I'd expected for the combination of iron sights, the fact they're milsurp, and my old eyes. The proof there is that if I sled the guns, I'm definitely getting better groups. So I'm a happy bunny, and I think I've settled on 3031 or 4064. Are these powders really optimal for these rifles? Probably not, but I'm not looking to use them for PRS or even F Class competitions. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

Secondary mission - load development for 308 - Ongoing, and it'll probably take some time given the amount of choice and experimentation I want to do.

Tertiary mission - understanding smokeless powder physics - is likely to be an ongoing process and is turning into a real rabbit-hole, but that's OK. I'm starting to understand some of the factors that are at play when considering powders, and that too is largely down to some of the observations you contributors have made here.

So, thanks once again.

 

[palmettomoon]

I must admit, I was a little surprised when this thread resurrected itself recently, so I'd like to take the opportunity to thank everyone who contributed because you drove me off in a number of informative (and some quite fruitful) directions.

Since the original posting, my primary mission has been accomplished.

I've found that all my milsurp rifles are running on reloads that group better than I'd hoped - they all chrono at about 10% lower velocity than published service velocity and more consistently too. I'm getting groups well within 4MOA, which is what I'd expected for the combination of iron sights, the fact they're milsurp, and my old eyes. The proof there is that if I sled the guns, I'm definitely getting better groups. So I'm a happy bunny, and I think I've settled on 3031 or 4064. Are these powders really optimal for these rifles? Probably not, but I'm not looking to use them for PRS or even F Class competitions. Sometimes good enough is good enough.

Secondary mission - load development for 308 - Ongoing, and it'll probably take some time given the amount of choice and experimentation I want to do.

Tertiary mission - understanding smokeless powder physics - is likely to be an ongoing process and is turning into a real rabbit-hole, but that's OK. I'm starting to understand some of the factors that are at play when considering powders, and that too is largely down to some of the observations you contributors have made here.

So, thanks once again.

3031 &/or 4064 will meet 99% of your oowder needs for old .30 class (small bore) milsurp reloads