41f and Persuant Kerfuffle

[albatros43]

Go back and read my original post....or any of them since then. I don't think "this is ok." I just simply fail to see the sky falling, as others seem to.

I have read all your posts. Your statements make it seem like you think it's ok as you keep defending it. Is the sky falling? No. Is this a hassle and will it lead to fewer NFA items? Yes. The sky also won't be falling but it sure will be a pain in the butt to have to get background checks on every private sale/trade we do as well.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

So to be clear rOmiLaYu , 4473 background checks on all private transfers of firearms wouldn't be a step in the wrong direction since after all it would just be bringing private transfers up to the same standard as FFL transfers and in turn closing the "loophole" of private transfers. I mean, firearms will not be banned and still be obtainable.

I just had to get two fingerprint cards done and two passport photos for something else a couple of months back. I don't have the ability to print my own passport photos, nor would the ATF accept fingerprint cards not done by local law enforcement. Total cost to me was 50 bucks. Now I have 4 people on my trust, all completely legal to be in possession of NFA items, heck two of them hold FFLs, one of which is an 07/02 SOT. Even still, with 41F, that adds 4 extra trips to the county jail to get fingerprints done, and 4 extra trips to get passport photos made and an added cost of 200 dollars per NFA transfer. You don't think this is more restrictive?

 

[rOmiLaYu]

I have read all your posts. Your statements make it seem like you think it's ok as you keep defending it. Is the sky falling? No. Is this a hassle and will it lead to fewer NFA items? Yes. The sky also won't be falling but it sure will be a pain in the butt to have to get background checks on every private sale/trade we do as well.

I won't be doing that. Why will you?

 

[albatros43]

I won't be doing that. Why will you?

You've made the argument that the sky isn't falling because it puts trusts on equal footing with individuals. Background checks on private sales would put them on equal footing with dealer sales/4473. I won't be doing that, I was just expanding upon your "equality" comparison. I'm not saying you would be in favor with that, but it follows your logic on this issue.

 

[Jeddak]

I won't be doing that. Why will you?

You took advantage of the "gun show loophole" 167 times over 5 years, that's 3 guns a month. I think it is reasonable that people in business of selling guns like you, should run a background check on their buyers. What do you think?

 

[rOmiLaYu]

So to be clear rOmiLaYu , 4473 background checks on all private transfers of firearms wouldn't be a step in the wrong direction since after all it would just be bringing private transfers up to the same standard as FFL transfers and in turn closing the "loophole" of private transfers.

No, I wouldn't be OK with that. As it stands the 4473 exists as a form of regulation of commerce and an accountability standard for those lawfully engaged in the interstate commerce of selling firearms, something the Federal Government is allowed to legislate/monitor. They are not given the authority to legislate/monitor person to person, private transactions and as such, applying a 4473 to that process would be overstepping.

I just had to get two fingerprint cards done and two passport photos for something else a couple of months back. I don't have the ability to print my own passport photos, nor would the ATF accept fingerprint cards not done by local law enforcement. Total cost to me was 50 bucks. Now I have 4 people on my trust, all completely legal to be in possession of NFA items, heck two of them hold FFLs, one of which is an 07/02 SOT. Even still, with 41F, that adds 4 extra trips to the county jail to get fingerprints done, and 4 extra trips to get passport photos made and an added cost of 200 dollars per NFA transfer. You don't think this is more restrictive?

Is it more "restrictive?" No. Is it more cumbersome and painstaking? Yes. As I have maintained since the beginning, legal people before 41f are still legal people so it has in no way "restricted" anything...but it has encumbered some things.

As to the bolded postions of your response, you're speculating. You don't know that....I'm more inclined to agree with SloStang in that it is likely that FFL's will have the ability to do pictures and fingerprints on site as a courtesy. Who's to say, though? You could be right...but that still leads to my point. All this kerfuffle and Chicken Littling - and yet - still so many unanswered questions.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

You took advantage of the "gun show loophole" 167 times over 5 years, that's 3 guns a month. I think it is reasonable that people in business of selling guns like you, should run a background check on their buyers. What do you think?

I think that you assume I've bought 167 guns and that all feedback left is for firearms transactions.

I further think that you've proven the former part of the definition of "assume." Only time will tell on the latter.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

You've made the argument that the sky isn't falling because it puts trusts on equal footing with individuals. Background checks on private sales would put them on equal footing with dealer sales/4473. I won't be doing that, I was just expanding upon your "equality" comparison. I'm not saying you would be in favor with that, but it follows your logic on this issue.

But it doesn't. See my response to NWS. Private sales are not regulated by the Federal Government.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

They are not given the authority to legislate/monitor person to person, private transactions and as such, applying a 4473 to that process would be overstepping.

So come on up here and sell me your Liberty Mystic. It was made in Georgia, you bought it in Georgia, and you and I are both residents of Georgia. Interstate commerce doesn't apply. It will be a person to person private transaction so really the federal government doesn't have the authority to legislate/monitor the transaction so we should be good right?

 

[albatros43]

But it doesn't. See my response to NWS. Private sales are not regulated by the Federal Government.

Yes, they are. It's a federal law that states private sales must be made between residents of the same state.