Once a gun or receiver is registered, can you sell without NFA/ATF transfer?

[Sharpsburg]

As title says. Just curious because a seller in classified says his gun has a stamp but he can sell directly to whoever without NFA/atf process if he removes the vertical grip. Is that correct?

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/t...semi-auto-pistol-black.2399238/#post-11044803

 

[thisguy]

Disassembly is not sufficient to release a weapon from the NFA. It must be permanently altered. The examples the ATF uses are modifications such as welding a plug into the breech, drilling a hole at 90 degrees through the barrel, etc.

This guy is mistaken and probably doesn't realize that he should be insisting on a transfer to release him of liability for the buyers actions.

Heres the NFA handbook, section 2 covers removing items from the NFAhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw3dW_qUpTNKJBdUrECbsP8i&cshid=1611309188377


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[Hood886]

He can have the gun taken off the registry by sending the atf a letter. The firearm does not have to be destroyed inorder to be removed from the nfa. Now weather or not he can convert it back into a pistol is up for debate.

 

[thisguy]

He can have the gun taken off the registry by sending the atf a letter. The firearm does not have to be destroyed inorder to be removed from the nfa. Now weather or not he can convert it back into a pistol is up for debate.

This sounds reasonable. Honestly OP, I'd just call the ATF and ask. They are pretty willing to help in my experience.
Or if you're already in NFA stuff, ask your lawyer about it. Definitely not a first time thing, but there's so much convolution it's worth the opinion.

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[rumrunner55]

Disassembly is not sufficient to release a weapon from the NFA. It must be permanently altered. The examples the ATF uses are modifications such as welding a plug into the breech, drilling a hole at 90 degrees through the barrel, etc.

This guy is mistaken and probably doesn't realize that he should be insisting on a transfer to release him of liability for the buyers actions.

Heres the NFA handbook, section 2 covers removing items from the NFAhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw3dW_qUpTNKJBdUrECbsP8i&cshid=1611309188377


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This is not true at all for an SBR...as long as the firearm is placed back in a legal form ie longer barrel, no stock then the petition letter to remove from NFA the firearm can remain perfectly functional...people sell lowers like this all the time

 

[thisguy]

After further reading, rumrunner is correct. Missed the heading on my phone earlier.

See section 2.5: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2

'If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.'

 

[crowbusterL579]

SHHHH! Don't ask and Don't tell!!!

 

[Lazarus]

I'm not a lawyer or an NFA guru but I have a book of stamps and some experience. I've always read on a number of sites, including legal sites that documentation is required to removal the firearm from the NFA registry.

NFA is not a game to be played lightly. I personally would make sure everything is documented and in order. It shows the folly and confusion of NFA rules especially when talking about ARs, braces and VFG

 

[spencer60]

Agreed, it's registered until it isn't. The ATF still has it down as an AOW I'm guessing (brace but VFG).

While removing the 'feature' (VFG) will make it a non-NFA item, if anything came up in the future (stolen, lost, etc.) it would still show as an AOW in gov't records.

This is one case where a bill of sale stating that the seller has notified the ATF that the gun should be removed from the NFA is probably a requirement.

 

[Hood886]

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?
A: Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA firearm is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn't comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?
A: There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.

Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a firearm under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
A: If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
A: Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.


Some info I stumbled upon. No Need to take anything off the registry as long as its not in a NFA configuration you can sell anything you want. No requirement to notify the ATF of turning it back into a rifle and selling it as a general firearm. There is also no "removing" an item, they just update the information in the system to reflect but it is still in the system.