Item Relisted! Why .380??

[letusbuyyourcar]

By stopping the threat asap i meant a bullet than can penetrate deep enough (for vitals) and expand well enough to incapacitate and from what i have watched and read (not an expert on the matter), it seems the .380 does not penetrate and expand enough for that. Obviously a psychological stop of a threat can happen with a bb gun so there are other variations to consider but it seems generally speaking, the .380 is inferior to the 9mm .40 and 45 service calibers. I could be wrong though. I have recently heard there are some pretty potent .380 rounds so perhaps bullet technology is changing the older views on a diminutive round

I agree that 380 is weaker than all the auto pistol rounds you mentioned along with 38 Special. But again I mention that there are very small and lightweight pistols available in 380.
Also you mentioned the power of a psychological stop. I think that carries some weight to most attackers that ain't chemically altered. Seriously if you put 2 or 3 rounds of damn near any caliber in a bad guy's abdomen or ass I think he would have more to worry about than continuing his attack. But h
I've never been in that situation and can't say for sure. I do know that if you took a few shots at me and I managed to not die or get hit I would definitely be in retreat mode.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I have stood over dudes with tiny .380 and 25 cal holes punched in their chests, mouths gaped open, blankly staring up at the night sky, with that thin glimmering film covering their fully dilated eyes. I asked them if they were disappointed in the lesser bullet weight, diminished velocity and lower energy of the still warm rounds in their chest.....strangely, they had no reply.

I've seen some of these cases firsthand myself. I've talked with numerous homicide detectives, coroners, medical examiners, forensic pathologists with the GBI in Panthersville... and we all say that bullet placement is what kills, not caliber.

Which is why that all of these criminal justice professionals themselves carry .32 and .380 caliber pistols, even on duty. Right? Because we all know that they are lethal. Can I get an Amen on that???


(Of course not. We all know better. We all carry serious caliber defensive pistols, and that's what we recommend to friends and family, unless we know that the person insists on a mousegun caliber and simply won't carry anything more potent.)

 

[CQB27]

By stopping the threat asap i meant a bullet than can penetrate deep enough (for vitals) and expand well enough to incapacitate and from what i have watched and read (not an expert on the matter), it seems the .380 does not penetrate and expand enough for that. Obviously a psychological stop of a threat can happen with a bb gun so there are other variations to consider but it seems generally speaking, the .380 is inferior to the 9mm .40 and 45 service calibers. I could be wrong though. I have recently heard there are some pretty potent .380 rounds so perhaps bullet technology is changing the older views on a diminutive round

Modern .380 self defense ammo is basically equal in every respect to modern 38 special defense ammo, yet few will argue the effectiveness of the snub nose 38 for close quarter self defense. Ironically, due to it's long history, over the course of time the .38 has probably killed more good and bad guys in this country than any other round.

Does a heavier bullet at a higher velocity equate to better ballistics.....sure, no one will argue that. Does that fact carry a lot weight for the .380/38 special/9mm/.40 S&W/ 45 ACP in a self defense close quarter engagement argument when it comes to "stopping the threat asap"? Many will argue that on both sides of that fence.

The truth is all the most common pistol self defense rounds use the same wounding mechanism, and as a result all suffer the same limitations at stopping determined threats quickly save a CNS hit. Have 45 ACP rounds fired at close quarters into the chest of a determined attacker failed to stop him quickly? Yep. Have .22 WMR rounds fired into the chest of a determined attacker stopped him quickly? Yep. Does a 9 mm fired from a 3 inch barrel have better ballistics than a .38 special or .380 from a 3 inch barrel, or a .357 Sig as apposed to a 9 mm? Sure. Does that difference in ballistics greatly improve wounding mechanism to the point that a equally well placed shot at close quarters stops a determined threat significantly faster? Sometimes. Maybe. Maybe Not.

The point I was trying to make is measuring the anticipated outcome of a close quarter self defense engagement based on pistol/revolver bullet caliber alone, i.e. "a" caliber outperforms "b" caliber every time, is nonsensical. It's probably pretty smart to arm ourselves with the largest caliber we can conveniently carry based on our ability, body size. seasonal clothing choice. For some that's a .380, others a 45. It's probably not very smart to make the assumption that in the event we defend ourselves with our .45 against an attack from a criminal things will automatically work out better for us because we weren't carrying a .380. As always, YMMV.

 

[CQB27]

I've seen some of these cases firsthand myself. I've talked with numerous homicide detectives, coroners, medical examiners, forensic pathologists with the GBI in Panthersville... and we all say that bullet placement is what kills, not caliber.

Which is why that all of these criminal justice professionals themselves carry .32 and .380 caliber pistols, even on duty. Right? Because we all know that they are lethal. Can I get an Amen on that???


(Of course not. We all know better. We all carry serious caliber defensive pistols, and that's what we recommend to friends and family, unless we know that the person insists on a mousegun caliber and simply won't carry anything more potent.)

There is more that goes into to duty ammo selection than simple wounding mechanism. Barrier penetration, both over and under, for example. Many of your "criminal justice friends" choose .32, .380, .38 (including you, by your own admission, choose a .38 for EDC, which in no way greatly exceeds the .380 "mouse gun" you disparage) for off duty, back up carry. Right? You got any "Amens" on that? Or maybe just another petulant response you seem to be prone too?

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I'm not disparaging the .380. I've carried a Bersa Thunder before, and didn't feel particularly under-equipped.
But don't say it's the equal of a 9 x 19mm.
And don't say that it's as good of a manstopper.
Sometimes I'm willing to trade some firepower for comfort and deep concealment.
But I'm not going spread BS around the internet saying I've still got the same firepower as I had, when I put away my Glock 26 and started carrying the Bersa, or the S&W 637, or even (when I used to run for exercise) the KelTec P32.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I recognize that for some calibers, more foot/pounds of energy doesn't really mean more real-word effectiveness as a manstopper.

Those calibers are generally the ones that hit like the Hammer of Thor anyway, and all have way more power than needed for the job.

I don't care how much more powerful a 3.5" magnum 12-gauge round has over a standard 2.75" slug or 00 buckshot load. Nor do I care about the difference in 'stopping power' between 12 bore and 16 bore or 20 bore.
I say there's no real difference in stopping power between the .223 and 7.62 x 39 at typical home defense distances, and when barrier penetration isn't an issue, even using a .30-06 or 7.62 x 54R isn't going to really give you much of an edge on the street, even if the guns that fired them were the same type and style, and size.

 

[Phydoux]

Just carry what you train with and are comfortable with, that gun will have a better chance of saving your life than one your not comfortable with or have not trained with.
I carry a smith .38 revolver, I shoot it 2-3 times every range visit, 2x a week and am very comfortable with it and carries great due to its light weight. In my opinion a revolver is best in a self defense situation, just my opinion though!
BTW I also own a 9,45,.22, all suppressor hosts. and have owned several.380s
Miss my DBA

 

[MRH]

The point I was trying to make is measuring the anticipated outcome of a close quarter self defense engagement based on pistol/revolver bullet caliber alone, i.e. "a" caliber outperforms "b" caliber every time, is nonsensical. It's probably pretty smart to arm ourselves with the largest caliber we can conveniently carry based on our ability, body size. seasonal clothing choice. For some that's a .380, others a 45. It's probably not very smart to make the assumption that in the event we defend ourselves with our .45 against an attack from a criminal things will automatically work out better for us because we weren't carrying a .380. As always, YMMV.

Well I certainly agree with this. Carry the best you can carry, and if you cannot, then carry the next best thing, if you can. There are no guarantees.

I find most caliber debates a bit silly.

In a self defense handgun I want something that works reliably and has a good capacity. That's all. The caliber debate is almost as silly as ergonomics. Not quite, but almost...In a 3-5 second encounter in defense of your existence, does anyone really believe ergonomics matter? Bwahahaha!! But these are the arguments I see everyday. It is ridiculous.

I want the most capable weapon I can have at the time when I need it most. I am almost certain we can all agree there. In some cases, even my own, carrying anything larger than a true pocket gun is just not possible. Believe me, I get that. An unreasonable amount of time spent in my life dictates that I must carry the smallest thing you can imagine, so I carry a snub .38+p, and deal with it. It is not my first choice for a carry weapon, but in my world it is one of my only options, much of the time. I choose that particular one only because I am fairly comfortable with it. There are plenty of others I would rather carry, but my situation does not agree with those other weapons. I hope I never have to use it, but if I do, I hope it gives me enough weaponry to get out of there alive, whatever the situation may be.

That's all I want, anyway, is to survive and save those behind me, if I am not alone. Either way, the goal of winning, at least in my mind, is to survive. Killing the bad guy may be the end result, because the use of deadly force is a no brainer if (God forbid) we have to pull our guns, but survival is what I'm looking at, not necessarily killing the bad guy. If the threat is stopped, my job is done. Dead, down and out, or running away, if the threat is stopped and we are OK, well that's just fine and dandy by me, no matter how it is achieved.

 

[6.5 Creed]

I had a sig P238 and a glock 42. will get another sig P238 at some point. It fits me fine, different tools for different jobs. We are all not 250lbs and can pocket carry anything

I agree. For me it is nothing more than a matter of weapon size and weight. The .380's tend to be a little smaller and I find them easier to conceal if I'm wearing say, shorts and a T-shirt. Not to mention that they are lighter and don't tug at my belt like a 9mm would when wearing light clothing.

Note: I am a Glock fan boy. I own a 42 and 43 I carry the 42 in the summer and the 43 in the winter.

 

[fastfish66]

Why buy a 380? Cause 9mm is too "snappy" for your girlfriend....

LET'S SEE,A 10MM IS TOO SNAPPY SO I GOT A 357 SIG. IT WAS TOO SNAPPY SO I GOT A 40CAL. IT WAS TOO SNAPPY SO I GOT A 9MM. IT WAS TOO SNAPPY SO I GOT A 380. IT HAD TOO MUCH MUZZLE JUMP SO I GOT A 22 BUT THE REPORT WAS SO SHARP I GOT A PAINT BALL GUN. NOW I'M HAPPY. JUST SAYIN