Home Defense gun suggestions

[DaveTheMinion]

Someone who has rarely shot a gun before might as well fight unarmed. When something goes bump in the night it creates a serious rush of adrenaline and fear. Grabbing a gun you've barely touched, much less shot is dangerous. As stated before, when going against unarmed assailants they lose any advantage they would have by staying on the defensive. If they come face to face with an intruder, a inexperienced mistake like leaving safety on, being unloaded, or mentally freezing could be deadly.

 

[RELOADER]

This is my 590 Mossberg a great home defense gun IMO. Check out the local pawn shops as these guns can be found anywhere. I have about 360 bucks in this one with the upgrades ive added to it for my personal preference. But a word of caution these shotguns are a little on the heavy side when loaded so let the wife/girlfriend see if it is something she would be comfortable using.

 

[STONEWALL]

1st - Handgun.
2nd - 870 or 500.
3rd - AK or AR.
4th - Baseball bat.

Just IMO.

 

[MightySaucePan]

I think we need a little more info to make a truly informed decision. I don't know where these people live, but using a rifle like the SKS for home defense could be really irresponsible. In my neighborhood, there are usually at least a couple of innocent bystanders milling around; moreover, the houses are relatively close together. It seems like a 7.62 round would create the potential for more collateral damage while defending the home than would a load of #00 buckshot, which will likely stop when it hits a relatively solid surface (hopefully the bad guy.) My HD shotgun holds 5rds of 12ga, and there is no distance in my home over about 7yds, so I really don't worry about reload time... If I can't drop someone with 5 tries with the 12ga, I probably don't deserve to keep my TV. And that's assuming that actual hits are what will dissuade the would-be home invader; I'm not totally sure that it would take more than the deafening boom, the blinding muzzle flash, and the REALLY bright tac-light in the eyes to get someone turned around.

Add'ly, the pistol or pistol-caliber carbine, while it would likely reduce the chances of killing the neighbors vs. a rifle, gives up significant stopping power to the 12ga. A lot of folks scream about the stopping power gains on a .45acp vs. 9mm, but the difference in stopping power with a 12ga vs. a .45acp is greatly more significant than the difference between .45acp and 9mm. Likely, if you have to actually shoot someone to stop them from proceeding deeper into your home, you're dealing with a relatively dedicated criminal. It seems to me that the 12ga is the better answer to this dedication than a handgun round. Obviously, there is no replacing the handgun in the night stand or end table for quick action, but my first grab for things that go bump in the night is my 12ga.

Finally, one poster talked about passive security systems, and I have to say that this is the best point I've seen on this thread. My primary passive security are a 75lb pit bull terrier and a 70lb Rhodesian Ridgeback/ Lab mix. I had an attempted break-in once that ended very soon after the jackasses got up on the porch and heard those dogs going frickin' nuts. Hardening windows, entry doors, etc. is also a good idea because, while inexpensive security doors, bars, etc. won't hold off a home invader indefinitely, they do give you enough time to get to the shotgun, call the police, and get right, mentally, with what is about to happen.

You have many valid points here but you miss an important part regarding the carbines vs shotgun. That is the expectation that the wife can be proficient with it. Providing someone get a panicked shot off with a shotgun dealing with the recoil racking the slide and re aquirring the target seems like quite a bit compared the just pulling the trigger again. Also 15-30 rounds of quality defense ammo through a carbine barrel surpasses 357 ballistics at under 10 yard. They could always get a 45acp carbine but the 9 has more than enough firepower to stop anything getting in the door. Lastly there is a much greater concern for collateral damage with even a 20ga. More likely to wing a dog or person inside the house.

 

[sovietak474u]

1st - Handgun.
2nd - 870 or 500.
3rd - AK or AR.
4th - Baseball bat.

Just IMO.

I could roll with this.

 

[ArmedinAtlanta]

You have many valid points here but you miss an important part regarding the carbines vs shotgun. That is the expectation that the wife can be proficient with it. Providing someone get a panicked shot off with a shotgun dealing with the recoil racking the slide and re aquirring the target seems like quite a bit compared the just pulling the trigger again. Also 15-30 rounds of quality defense ammo through a carbine barrel surpasses 357 ballistics at under 10 yard. They could always get a 45acp carbine but the 9 has more than enough firepower to stop anything getting in the door. Lastly there is a much greater concern for collateral damage with even a 20ga. More likely to wing a dog or person inside the house.

You're right, I did neglect to consider the proficiency of the wife, and that was in error. After thinking about it, however, I'm just not sure that my answer wouldn't be the same. My girlfriend is all of 115-120lbs at 5'4", and, while she doesn't overly care for shooting the 12ga when we go to the range (and why would she, with her pink digicam P22 crying out "shoot me, shoot me!"? ), she definitely CAN do it, and she puts the pellets on the paper, consistently. Your argument about a follow-up shot is well-taken, but my point about stopping power ties into it, I think: there is simply less need for a follow-up shot with a 12ga, and there is published data available at http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866 to support this. In the referenced study, with a .45acp, the number of hits is more than double the number of people shot, meaning that there was (apparently) more need for follow-ups with that cartridge than with the shotgun (90% of those surveyed were 12ga) which required abt. 1.22 hits per bad guy. So, while it's obviously not an exact science, I think the better approach is to use the weapon most likely to get the job done in one shot, rather than to plan on having to take multiples and work a semiauto weapon, which, in my experience, have many more issues with feeding than does a pump-action 12ga.

As to the collateral damage argument, I just don't see it. Unless you're running some whacky choke in the 12ga, I feel like your pattern shouldn't be so wide that you risk hitting something you're not aiming at. I admit, if one of my dogs was "occupying" the hypothetical home invader, it might be dicey to shoot at center mass, but I like to believe 2 things about this potential situation 1) if I'm worried enough about a threat of violence to point the 12ga at a person, I'm probably worried enough to take the shot and hope for the best for the dog; and 2) if the dog is doing its job right, I probably will not have to shoot, rather I could subdue the attacker through application of unarmed physical force or with Stonewall's #4, above.

All that being said, I surely appreciate the comments, Room4OneGal, and I've totally crossed yours off my list of houses to burgle

 

[zesty]

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Great article. There's definitely some holes in the data but the author does a decent job discussing them. It may not be that you need twice as many shots with a .45, it could just be that you can fire a .45 twice as fast as a shotgun (I'd say that's conservative actually). Anyway, you have to be careful about reading too much into that data. I do think it's smart to plan on having to take multiple shots no matter what load is used. It doesn't matter how quick a bad guy goes down if he has a buddy or two with him.

I'm not in the carbine camp as far as it being the goto HD gun, just pointing out what I see and enjoying this discussion.

 

[ArmedinAtlanta]

Great article. There's definitely some holes in the data but the author does a decent job discussing them. It may not be that you need twice as many shots with a .45, it could just be that you can fire a .45 twice as fast as a shotgun (I'd say that's conservative actually). Anyway, you have to be careful about reading too much into that data. I do think it's smart to plan on having to take multiple shots no matter what load is used. It doesn't matter how quick a bad guy goes down if he has a buddy or two with him.

I'm not in the carbine camp as far as it being the goto HD gun, just pointing out what I see and enjoying this discussion.

Zesty:

If you look carefully at the data, specifically the table titled "Incapacitation" you'll see that the percentages for 1) fatal shots; 2) actual [physical] incapacitation; and 3) number of bad guys actually incapacitated in ONE shot are uniformly much higher in the shotgun category than their counterparts in pistol calibers. I think that you're right that there is a skew in the data for ease of use, but the fatality and actual physical incapacitation (rather than the "psychological stop" described later in the piece) percentages speak loudest to me. But, that's just me.

With respect to your multiple shots point: obviously, I wouldn't take a single-shot 12ga over a 15rd capacity pistol for HD purposes, I simply stated that the best tool for the application would be the one that is most likely to only be needed once. I don't think that's a controversial point.

 

[Shooter101]

G19 with M3 light from insight Tech! accompany with a SBR and 39 RD mag of BTHP 5.56

 

[Timprov]

1st - Handgun.
2nd - 870 or 500.
3rd - AK or AR.
4th - Baseball bat.

Just IMO.

Good list! (I have 3 out of 4) There is a 5th I would add.

5th - My daughters 2 multipoo puppies. A total of 20 pounds. (16 lbs when shaved) We can slip out the back door while the bad guy is laughing.