Getting rid of majority of collection & ATF new rule

[poopdaddy]

To do what? Trade into something better? No it is not against the law. Buying with the intent to sell to make money without a license has always been against the law.

yep so why the new rule? we know you cant buy a gun and flip it.. so why now give the burden of proving you did not? i have traded around to change up and grow my collection, but now the burden of proof will be on me to prove i did not buy to sell, or sell too many, or sell too soon, or sell for more... that all equals lawyer.. that equals big bucks..
you guys are not looking at what we see. you are a ffl, its my understanding that if i bought a collection, then decided to sell it, took it to a ffl and cosigned it......i would still could be breaking the law... even though every firearm would have a 4473... its the burden of proof and no set number or amount that makes you "in business"..
what if i go buy a hard to find gun, then have a family emergency and i need money asap.. i got a deal, thats why i bought it. a hardship caused me to sell it... i sell it for more, am i now in the business? its hypothetical, but its still a concern...

 

[kwelhand]

yep so why the new rule? we know you cant buy a gun and flip it.. so why now give the burden of proving you did not? i have traded around to change up and grow my collection, but now the burden of proof will be on me to prove i did not buy to sell, or sell too many, or sell too soon, or sell for more... that all equals lawyer.. that equals big bucks..
you guys are not looking at what we see. you are a ffl, its my understanding that if i bought a collection, then decided to sell it, took it to a ffl and cosigned it......i would still could be breaking the law... even though every firearm would have a 4473... its the burden of proof and no set number or amount that makes you "in business"..
what if i go buy a hard to find gun, then have a family emergency and i need money asap.. i got a deal, thats why i bought it. a hardship caused me to sell it... i sell it for more, am i now in the business? its hypothetical, but its still a concern...

That's an excellent point.
If nothing changed from the previous rule with this new one, then certainly the ATF wouldn't have spent their time coming up with over 600 pages of documents.
I think you're absolutely right... Most folks will have to plea deal since you can't fight the feds with unlimited legal funds.

 

[rockyfatcat]

Running $200 thru the inflation calculator from 1980 makes that $758.09 in todays dollars so its not far off.

They removed many of todays big ticket items, like gasoline, from the basket they use to calculate inflation. Just to make the numbers less bad.

In an economics class in1983. That the 1983 dollar had the buying power of a 1930 nickel.

 

[CTS Tactical]

yep so why the new rule? we know you cant buy a gun and flip it.. so why now give the burden of proving you did not? i have traded around to change up and grow my collection, but now the burden of proof will be on me to prove i did not buy to sell, or sell too many, or sell too soon, or sell for more... that all equals lawyer.. that equals big bucks..
you guys are not looking at what we see. you are a ffl, its my understanding that if i bought a collection, then decided to sell it, took it to a ffl and cosigned it......i would still could be breaking the law... even though every firearm would have a 4473... its the burden of proof and no set number or amount that makes you "in business"..
what if i go buy a hard to find gun, then have a family emergency and i need money asap.. i got a deal, thats why i bought it. a hardship caused me to sell it... i sell it for more, am i now in the business? its hypothetical, but its still a concern...

Where in the new rule do you see anything of that? It is just clarifying what has always been known by most of us just as you said. The point being, if you buy with the intent to sell for profit then you need an FFL and write up your own 4473. Nothing new, just clarification. For the most part, it is a nothing rule so Joe Biden can pat himself on the back and tell his base he did something.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Where in the new rule do you see anything of that? It is just clarifying what has always been known by most of us just as you said. The point being, if you buy with the intent to sell for profit then you need an FFL and write up your own 4473. Nothing new, just clarification. For the most part, it is a nothing rule so Joe Biden can pat himself on the back and tell his base he did something.

Bold of you to assume anyone has even read the "new rule"

I read through it, I tried hard to find something in it that wasn't already the law. Still waiting for someone to point out what is "new" about it.

 

[StuP]

This thread should be locked immediately, there's far too much rational thought present.

 

[CTS Tactical]

we know you cant buy a gun and flip it.. so why now give the burden of proving you did not?

Please show me any wording in this new rule that shifts the burden of proof from the accuser to the accused. That has never been the basis of criminal law in this country. Remember: "Innocent till proven guilty".

 

[CTS Tactical]

Bold of you to assume anyone has even read the "new rule"

I read through it, I tried hard to find something in it that wasn't already the law. Still waiting for someone to point out what is "new" about it.

They actually clarified one thing for me. It says that if I were to log out a firearm to myself, legally it is still part of the business inventory for a period of one year from the date it was logged out to me.

 

[BHPSteel]

Please show me any wording in this new rule that shifts the burden of proof from the accuser to the accused. That has never been the basis of criminal law in this country. Remember: "Innocent till proven guilty".

That concept is lost on a lot of people around here. See one of the more active threads from a couple days ago.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

They actually clarified one thing for me. It says that if I were to log out a firearm to myself, legally it is still part of the business inventory for a period of one year from the date it was logged out to me.

That's what a field agent told my boss at the pawn shop 10+ years ago. Accept she said it was kinda a unwritten rule for FFL's logging out inventory to themselves. I guess it's a written rule now.