Screw the whiny free loaders.
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AITA for not training folks for free?
- Thread starter cmshoot
- Start date
Glad you pissed some folks off, I am not alone
I’m retired and we enjoy a quiet, peaceful existence.
I don’t want anyone on my property period.
Paramilitary or any other similar training is flypaper for wannbe Rambos, Feds and I don’t want my dog shot.
I have just enough of friends and don’t desire to make anymore.
Not trying to be an asshole but that’s the way it is.
Part of the problem with affording enough land to make an outdoor shooting range is residential overdevelopment and the civil law of nuisance. Noise, mostly, but also complaints about stray bullets because a HUGE PERCENTAGE of shooters are ignorant of how to safely place targets in a way that the bullets will end up in the backstop reliably. And others are slob shooters who just don't give a flying fornication. They do what they want and what pleases them for that day, without regard to the consequences to them, to the land owners, the gun club's management, or the neighbors.
To some extent, having a full time range officer for each firing line can eliminate most stray bullets, except those from a Negligent Discharge (plenty of those happen, too. Just inspect the ceiling of any indoor range, a few yards in front of the firing line. And the floor, too.)
But to some degree, the high cost of land AND the high legal liability risk is due to the legal system that the government set up. And the government can address that buy buying land and making a public range out of it. A taxpayer-funded outdoor rifle and shotgun range to do things that the current plethora of 25-yard indoor pistol ranges just can't do (even if they have some lanes where rifles and slug-shotguns are allowed).
I love when I can identify others that have also spilled over from Reddit
Am I the Asshole
Popular subreddit....
I am not a personal injury lawyer with much experience in premises liability, but from what I learned in law school and bar exam prep, I think the actual risk of getting sued is substantial, but the risk of LOSING the suit and being ordered to pay damages, is pretty darn small if you (as the trainer) or you (as the landowner who had a deal with a firearms trainer to bring students to your land) if you were not negligent.
A properly worded document that serves three roles will give you a lot of protection:
1-- Assumption of Risk, with broadly-worded descriptions of what kind of hazards a person at an outdoor shooting area may face.
2-- Waiver of Right to Sue, for any negligence or gross negligence.
3-- Indemnification and Hold Harmless agreement, where the student and/or trainer promises to defend, and pay for the costs of defending, the landowner for any costs associated with some accident that happens during the use of the land.
Aside from the document, the other part of what you can do is simply DO THE RIGHT THING.
Don't be lazy, sloppy, selfish, or stupid. Know the difference between what is safe and unsafe and do things the safe way. Don't do unsafe things just because you've always gotten away with it so far.
Know what the current "prevailing in the firearms industry" standards are and follow them, even if you aren't convinced they're necessary and even if that's not how you learned from your coaches years ago, and it's not how your daddy learned to do things or how Dad taught you. Keep up on what is the "new normal" for safety expectations and just make them your new standards.
A properly worded document that serves three roles will give you a lot of protection:
1-- Assumption of Risk, with broadly-worded descriptions of what kind of hazards a person at an outdoor shooting area may face.
2-- Waiver of Right to Sue, for any negligence or gross negligence.
3-- Indemnification and Hold Harmless agreement, where the student and/or trainer promises to defend, and pay for the costs of defending, the landowner for any costs associated with some accident that happens during the use of the land.
Aside from the document, the other part of what you can do is simply DO THE RIGHT THING.
Don't be lazy, sloppy, selfish, or stupid. Know the difference between what is safe and unsafe and do things the safe way. Don't do unsafe things just because you've always gotten away with it so far.
Know what the current "prevailing in the firearms industry" standards are and follow them, even if you aren't convinced they're necessary and even if that's not how you learned from your coaches years ago, and it's not how your daddy learned to do things or how Dad taught you. Keep up on what is the "new normal" for safety expectations and just make them your new standards.
Thanks.
ODT is the closest thing to a social site I have ever used, proudly.
I do not want to sound harsh but if you were to invest your life’s savings in a plot of land, and you are familiar with liability practices in the US, you would never let anyone else run around and shoot on your property unless it means nothing to you.
Even if the owner spends hundreds or thousands of dollars on an air tight user liability acceptance policy. There is no guarantee it will protect the owner. The only safety net would be to hold a several million dollar insurance policy so someone could come shoot on your property. That may not even be enough, the policy will have exclusions. The insurance company will probably try to get out of paying after everything else.
Even if the owner spends hundreds or thousands of dollars on an air tight user liability acceptance policy. There is no guarantee it will protect the owner. The only safety net would be to hold a several million dollar insurance policy so someone could come shoot on your property. That may not even be enough, the policy will have exclusions. The insurance company will probably try to get out of paying after everything else.
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