Will be watching this for future posts.
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A Cowboy Coach
- Thread starter Sharps40
- Start date
Now that the barrels are notionally joined to the action without slop, its time to work on the bite of the top snap in the barrel lug.
The barrel lug was previously peened (see midwayusa two excellent videos on british doubles - joining barrels and adjusting the bite).....unfortunately, the hinge pin was not reworked and most of the peening moved metal down instead of up. There are two places to tighten the bite, moving the lug up and then filing it flat for full contact and then shimming or replacing the top snap if its heavily worn. This may take up well with just lug work but on disassembly I'll see if the top snap needs work or replacement too.
For now, I have to clearance the bottom of the lug for free movement of the extractor. So much metal was moved down in the last peening that the extractors jam and can't be removed.
Here the bottom of the lug is clearance, where metal was displaced, to free up the movement of the extractor.
Now the extractor is free to move in and out and to be removed.....the bottom of the lug needs no more work than a bootstrap polish with sand paper to smooth up its contours, very little metal was removed.
Here I have gently peened the upper level of the lug at the end and both sides with a hammer and cold steel chisel. Enough metal must be moved to raise not only the edges but the center of the top (engagement) face of the lug. I may be able to move it all, I may not and then have to look over repairs or replacement of the top snap. Either way, I move forward slowly with displacement of metal upward and eventually, (after looking over the underside of the top snap for wear) filing the top of the lug flat for full mating against the underside of the top snap.
For now, 4 strikes with the hammer and chisel across the length of the end and both sides of the upper portion of the barrel lug, very light clean up with files and a test fit to the action. At this time, I have yet to move metal up in the center of the bearing portion of the lug.....almost but not quite.
A quick test fit, enough for now......I'll finish fitting the hinge pin and forend iron and then check the other half of the bite for wear, the underside of the top snap. But, I have a fair 5 oclock position on the top snap for now and I think if I am careful, the bite can be restored to a good 5 or 6 oclock position with full engagement.
The barrel lug was previously peened (see midwayusa two excellent videos on british doubles - joining barrels and adjusting the bite).....unfortunately, the hinge pin was not reworked and most of the peening moved metal down instead of up. There are two places to tighten the bite, moving the lug up and then filing it flat for full contact and then shimming or replacing the top snap if its heavily worn. This may take up well with just lug work but on disassembly I'll see if the top snap needs work or replacement too.
For now, I have to clearance the bottom of the lug for free movement of the extractor. So much metal was moved down in the last peening that the extractors jam and can't be removed.
Here the bottom of the lug is clearance, where metal was displaced, to free up the movement of the extractor.
Now the extractor is free to move in and out and to be removed.....the bottom of the lug needs no more work than a bootstrap polish with sand paper to smooth up its contours, very little metal was removed.
Here I have gently peened the upper level of the lug at the end and both sides with a hammer and cold steel chisel. Enough metal must be moved to raise not only the edges but the center of the top (engagement) face of the lug. I may be able to move it all, I may not and then have to look over repairs or replacement of the top snap. Either way, I move forward slowly with displacement of metal upward and eventually, (after looking over the underside of the top snap for wear) filing the top of the lug flat for full mating against the underside of the top snap.
For now, 4 strikes with the hammer and chisel across the length of the end and both sides of the upper portion of the barrel lug, very light clean up with files and a test fit to the action. At this time, I have yet to move metal up in the center of the bearing portion of the lug.....almost but not quite.
A quick test fit, enough for now......I'll finish fitting the hinge pin and forend iron and then check the other half of the bite for wear, the underside of the top snap. But, I have a fair 5 oclock position on the top snap for now and I think if I am careful, the bite can be restored to a good 5 or 6 oclock position with full engagement.
So far so good.
Fitting the forend iron. The new fatter pin pushes the barrel back some, pushes the forend iron forward some.......
It should sit down fully on the barrel lug like this.....
It didn't before....been moved forward a few thousands and the rear of the notch needed a bit of relief to restore its proper seating.
The rear edge of the notch that fits around the barrel lug is slightly relieved with a small file....
Forend back on and sitting proper and snug against the barrels. A good snap on, snap off fit.
A bolt was spun in the drill press, checking often with the mic and final polished in place with sand paper. A grade 5 bolt is more than tuff enough and inexpensive enough to make it worth the 20 minutes or so it takes to get a hinge pin made up. Check and fit as you go, approach slowly and you'll have a fine hinge pin when all is said and done. Here its test fit.....after which its bashed in with a medium Smasher Whacker for a final and snug fit in the action.....action supported on a steel block, naturally. I finished with a .324 pin and I had also thought perhaps a .326" pin would be needed but I'll proceed with the smaller pin for now and see what I come up with for final fit.
The extra ends are cut off close with a hacksaw and the process of filing and sanding them into the contours is begun.
The final product. Looks fine after some initial sanding. The pin ends will finish up with the final polish......next will be spotting in the face to see if it needs a bit of adjustment at the breech to action area, it was moved a good bit backwards and likely is not totally on face yet. But, so far so good.
Fitting the forend iron. The new fatter pin pushes the barrel back some, pushes the forend iron forward some.......
It should sit down fully on the barrel lug like this.....
It didn't before....been moved forward a few thousands and the rear of the notch needed a bit of relief to restore its proper seating.
The rear edge of the notch that fits around the barrel lug is slightly relieved with a small file....
Forend back on and sitting proper and snug against the barrels. A good snap on, snap off fit.
A bolt was spun in the drill press, checking often with the mic and final polished in place with sand paper. A grade 5 bolt is more than tuff enough and inexpensive enough to make it worth the 20 minutes or so it takes to get a hinge pin made up. Check and fit as you go, approach slowly and you'll have a fine hinge pin when all is said and done. Here its test fit.....after which its bashed in with a medium Smasher Whacker for a final and snug fit in the action.....action supported on a steel block, naturally. I finished with a .324 pin and I had also thought perhaps a .326" pin would be needed but I'll proceed with the smaller pin for now and see what I come up with for final fit.
The extra ends are cut off close with a hacksaw and the process of filing and sanding them into the contours is begun.
The final product. Looks fine after some initial sanding. The pin ends will finish up with the final polish......next will be spotting in the face to see if it needs a bit of adjustment at the breech to action area, it was moved a good bit backwards and likely is not totally on face yet. But, so far so good.
Placed a small parts order. On the way is the left side trigger return spring, a pair of NOS firing pins (the originals were previously "Improved" to a rather pointy shaped tip, I assume to get gooder ignition with all the forward and aft slop in the assembly) and what appears to be a very fine condition top snap lever.....with luck it'll be much less worn than the one thats installed now and perhaps save having to shim one or the other of the barrel lug or original top snap lever.
I'll still need a trigger guard but I believe there is some workable stuff in the junk box, one rather like the original stamped sheet metal guard and another nicely cast model, much more like what would be found on a Fox Model B or similar upgraded shotgun.
The original and worn out safety button is somewhere on the shop floor. Not sure that I'll look for it.....a nice bit of hand work might be to make up an aluminum, brass or steel safety slide from scratch.
Looking over my forend and stock.... I have a split hardwood forend and a broken and puttied walnut stock. I am leaning towards a set from Boyds in nice straight grain walnut. But those decisions will be later.
For now, I have a Lil Hunter to take to the Taxidermest to choose her first Deer Mount and perhaps find time tonight and tomorrow to final spot the barrel breeches to the action.
I'll still need a trigger guard but I believe there is some workable stuff in the junk box, one rather like the original stamped sheet metal guard and another nicely cast model, much more like what would be found on a Fox Model B or similar upgraded shotgun.
The original and worn out safety button is somewhere on the shop floor. Not sure that I'll look for it.....a nice bit of hand work might be to make up an aluminum, brass or steel safety slide from scratch.
Looking over my forend and stock.... I have a split hardwood forend and a broken and puttied walnut stock. I am leaning towards a set from Boyds in nice straight grain walnut. But those decisions will be later.
For now, I have a Lil Hunter to take to the Taxidermest to choose her first Deer Mount and perhaps find time tonight and tomorrow to final spot the barrel breeches to the action.
Look carefully at the photo below. With the new larger hinge pin in place, the top of the barrels is above the top of the recoil shield. This is good. The new larger pin has moved the barrels back and the action does not quite close. I checked the bearing of breech to action and only the bottom 1/3 of the barrel diameters is making contact with the action face. Room for final fitting.
Again, look carefully at the photo below. There is a gap between the bottom of the barrels and the top of the water table. There must always be a gap, this one is a bit large because the barrels are not fully fitted to the action yet. Once fitted at the loop to hinge pin and as needed, at the breech face to action, the gap should close a bit but not completly. A properly joined set of barrels touches breech to face and has a slight gap bottom of barrels to water table.
Briefly, So far I am rejoining the barrels to the action using the following 3 steps.
1. Use grease to glue paper shims in place in the loop to estimate the size of the new hinge pin. I used about .007" of shim....so, Shim x 2 + original pin diameter in inches = approximate diameter of new hinge pin. In this case, .007" x 2 + .310" = .324" hinge pin diameter.
2. Make and install new hinge pin.
3. Fit forend iron. (The forend fitted up is necessary for final fitting the loop to hinge pin and as needed, breech face to action.)
The steps to do next are as follows.
4. Fit barrel loop to new hinge pin. (I'll smoke and file/polish it in for better contact of the loop to the new pin. It is likely that only a small portion of the loop is currently bearing on the new larger diameter pin. With fitting, the barrels will move slightly forward and down and more of the breech face should touch the face of the action. It is likely the tops of the barrels will become even with the tops of the recoil shields and the gap between the bottom of the barrels and the watertable will decrease but should not fully disappear.... i.e. the bottom of the barrels should not touch the water table at the rear/breech end.)
5. Once 1-4 is done and only if necessary, I will smoke in and file/polish the breech face and extractor face to the action. (This is potentially the last step in joining the barrels. Last Step.....Last step. Remove too much from the breech or remove it before fitting the loop and you may need either or both of a rechamber to make room for cartridge rims or have to refit a new and larger hinge pin to move the barrels back again.) Remember, #4 may well be the last step and 5 not needed. Do #5 last and only if needed.
Again, look carefully at the photo below. There is a gap between the bottom of the barrels and the top of the water table. There must always be a gap, this one is a bit large because the barrels are not fully fitted to the action yet. Once fitted at the loop to hinge pin and as needed, at the breech face to action, the gap should close a bit but not completly. A properly joined set of barrels touches breech to face and has a slight gap bottom of barrels to water table.
Briefly, So far I am rejoining the barrels to the action using the following 3 steps.
1. Use grease to glue paper shims in place in the loop to estimate the size of the new hinge pin. I used about .007" of shim....so, Shim x 2 + original pin diameter in inches = approximate diameter of new hinge pin. In this case, .007" x 2 + .310" = .324" hinge pin diameter.
2. Make and install new hinge pin.
3. Fit forend iron. (The forend fitted up is necessary for final fitting the loop to hinge pin and as needed, breech face to action.)
The steps to do next are as follows.
4. Fit barrel loop to new hinge pin. (I'll smoke and file/polish it in for better contact of the loop to the new pin. It is likely that only a small portion of the loop is currently bearing on the new larger diameter pin. With fitting, the barrels will move slightly forward and down and more of the breech face should touch the face of the action. It is likely the tops of the barrels will become even with the tops of the recoil shields and the gap between the bottom of the barrels and the watertable will decrease but should not fully disappear.... i.e. the bottom of the barrels should not touch the water table at the rear/breech end.)
5. Once 1-4 is done and only if necessary, I will smoke in and file/polish the breech face and extractor face to the action. (This is potentially the last step in joining the barrels. Last Step.....Last step. Remove too much from the breech or remove it before fitting the loop and you may need either or both of a rechamber to make room for cartridge rims or have to refit a new and larger hinge pin to move the barrels back again.) Remember, #4 may well be the last step and 5 not needed. Do #5 last and only if needed.
Love your work and your commentary bud, keep at it.
And on the off chance no one has told you today, you sir are a craftsman!
And on the off chance no one has told you today, you sir are a craftsman!
Agree! All day long!!
Fitting the loop can be done without a reamer.
Here, unfitted, the gap at the rear of the barrels to the water table.....021"
The loop is smoked.....barrel installed, forend installed and the action opened and closed. On removal, the silver (full removal of soot) or brown areas (partial removal of soot) are filed with a fine cut half round file. It is then resooted and reinstalled, worked again and disassembled and filed again.
After first filing, the barrels have closed up at the rear to .019" gap underneath.
Then .015" gap.
At a very tight .013" gap at the rear.
Here is the wipe....about 90% contact with the new hinge pin. You can't get much better than that by hand. A light polish with a round and 400g and this will be done. Remember, run light grease or oil on the pivot point and knees.....it keeps the softer lump from wearing out.
Here, unfitted, the gap at the rear of the barrels to the water table.....021"
The loop is smoked.....barrel installed, forend installed and the action opened and closed. On removal, the silver (full removal of soot) or brown areas (partial removal of soot) are filed with a fine cut half round file. It is then resooted and reinstalled, worked again and disassembled and filed again.
After first filing, the barrels have closed up at the rear to .019" gap underneath.
Then .015" gap.
At a very tight .013" gap at the rear.
Here is the wipe....about 90% contact with the new hinge pin. You can't get much better than that by hand. A light polish with a round and 400g and this will be done. Remember, run light grease or oil on the pivot point and knees.....it keeps the softer lump from wearing out.
Now, the gap under the barrels is .013" and I have 90% contact between loop and hinge pin.
Time to fit the barrels to the action. The ends of the barrels are battered. We'll see what we can do and they should drop further down as they become more fully on face. Right now, the bottom of the barrels is contacting the action face, still preventing the action from closing fully.
Remove the extractor and the lifting lever pin. Soot the breech faces of the barrels well. Assemble and work the action open and closed, locking it and making sure the forend is installed again with each assembly.
After repeated tries, smoking the breech, closing the action, opening and filing away only the bright silver sections (full removal of soot) I reach a point where the barrels are smoother at the breech, most of the battered areas removed and as you can see, closure now removes soot evenly all around the ends of the breech. Strive for a close fit. I like to get better than 50% of the circumference of the barrel in contact with the face. Sometimes you can get fuller contact like this. Just depends on the action and barrels. Remember, a gap ain't bad, if the headspace is right and the gun will shoot for long and long, but for best strength, the barrels breeches need to touch the actions face and more touch is better.
As you can see, with fitting, the gap at the rear of the barrels to the water table closed down to about .006".
And the gap between water tables at the front of the water table, closed down to .0025".
Last step is to make sure the extractor is thinner than the remainder of the breech after facing it to the action, so the extractor won't bind the gun shut. This one is good. Plenty of clearance from face of extractor to end of barrels.
So, I'll call these barrels fully joined. I checked with snap caps and dummy shells. The gun opens, closes and extracts fine.
Now to wait for the new top snap and see if I can get the bite just a bit better off. I'd like to end up at 5 oclock with the top snap lever, I'll settle for 6 oclock and could force myself to live with 7 oclock since the barrels are nicely rejoined and should shoot for thousands of rounds if the joints are kept clean and lightly lubed. Break action guns wear out not from shooting but from not wiping them clean and putting a drop of oil or grease on the pivot points before use. Its a strong simple action and so simple to clean and lube that we abuse them. Want to see one well cared for, go see LastTombStone's 16g Fox. Its 50+ and mechanically perfect. But, he does care for them, its why it lasted so long.
Time to fit the barrels to the action. The ends of the barrels are battered. We'll see what we can do and they should drop further down as they become more fully on face. Right now, the bottom of the barrels is contacting the action face, still preventing the action from closing fully.
Remove the extractor and the lifting lever pin. Soot the breech faces of the barrels well. Assemble and work the action open and closed, locking it and making sure the forend is installed again with each assembly.
After repeated tries, smoking the breech, closing the action, opening and filing away only the bright silver sections (full removal of soot) I reach a point where the barrels are smoother at the breech, most of the battered areas removed and as you can see, closure now removes soot evenly all around the ends of the breech. Strive for a close fit. I like to get better than 50% of the circumference of the barrel in contact with the face. Sometimes you can get fuller contact like this. Just depends on the action and barrels. Remember, a gap ain't bad, if the headspace is right and the gun will shoot for long and long, but for best strength, the barrels breeches need to touch the actions face and more touch is better.
As you can see, with fitting, the gap at the rear of the barrels to the water table closed down to about .006".
And the gap between water tables at the front of the water table, closed down to .0025".
Last step is to make sure the extractor is thinner than the remainder of the breech after facing it to the action, so the extractor won't bind the gun shut. This one is good. Plenty of clearance from face of extractor to end of barrels.
So, I'll call these barrels fully joined. I checked with snap caps and dummy shells. The gun opens, closes and extracts fine.
Now to wait for the new top snap and see if I can get the bite just a bit better off. I'd like to end up at 5 oclock with the top snap lever, I'll settle for 6 oclock and could force myself to live with 7 oclock since the barrels are nicely rejoined and should shoot for thousands of rounds if the joints are kept clean and lightly lubed. Break action guns wear out not from shooting but from not wiping them clean and putting a drop of oil or grease on the pivot points before use. Its a strong simple action and so simple to clean and lube that we abuse them. Want to see one well cared for, go see LastTombStone's 16g Fox. Its 50+ and mechanically perfect. But, he does care for them, its why it lasted so long.
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