3 gun tips/pointers?

[Troy3267]

So the mrs. gave the ok for me to compete (finally lol) and before I just show up and make a fool out of myself I was wondering if anyone on here has competed in one before, and if so what are some good tips? Like training, gear, firearm and ammo selection, etc.


And please, if you have never competed in one, chances are you don't really know what your talking about (youtube videos don't count as experience!), so please don't post in here unless you have done it before.

 

[ngcsugrad09]

To start out you want to figure out what division you want to shoot. In 3-gun, you have a few sets of rules but the divisions are all pretty identical. The descriptions below are generalizations..
Tactical Optics - Most common, involves a .223 rifle with one optic that can be variable (99% AR-15s with a 1-4x optic; muzzle break and free floated barrel), a semi auto or pump shotgun that holds 8+1 and iron sights and a doublestack pistol with irons sights.
Limited/Tactical Irons - involves a tactical optics rifle with irons sights or a red dot sight (some places irons only); semi/pump 12 ga with irons and a doublestack pistol
Open - can do pretty much anything you want regarding compensators, number of optics, etc, etc. I've seriously seen guys with $10,000 between 3 guns.
Heavy Metal - .308/12ga pump and a .45 pistol

Most 3 gun matches outside of the big matches only shoot out to 100-150 yards on the east coast. As such, you don't really need special ammo as long as you know where your rounds are hitting (sounds simply but I've seen way too many people screw that up). For rifles: standard 55gr ball ammo is usually all that is needed. If you want to pay to feed 69 or 77gr match rounds all the time go for it. The best way is to keep 55gr ball for close in, bullet hose type stages and use the match ammo for longer distance/precise shots. For shotguns, get a birdshot that works and get a good zero for slugs. It is rare to find a requirement for buckshot, and usually prohibited. If you have a semi-auto, make sure your gun cycles the ammo. I'd strongly recommend a shotgun that has removable chokes. Keep an improved cylinder, light modified or modified (whichever the slugs like) in it and have a full choke for some of the longer clays shots. For a pistol, whatever works out of the gun.

Equipment: If you are wanting to get serious with it, get something like a CR Speed belt (inner/outer belt) that you can remove the outer belt and reconfigure your pouches. Safariland also has a new locking system belt that is pretty slick. Between stages you will find that you want to change your mag pouches or take off/add more shotgun caddies. Except for heavy metal, you should only really need 2 spare mag pouches for the pistol and 1, maybe 2 for a rifle. (Side note: for rifles, 30rd mags is popular with mag couplers, but you'll see some 40-50rd extended mags. You hardly have to reload more than what is on the gun, but you don't want to run out.) Shotgun shells are carried in caddies. 4 and 6 shells are popular, depending on your shotgun loading technique. You'll find that the serious guys run 4 shell caddies as that's about all you can fit in a human hand. Having 4-5 of these is a good idea.

Regarding training, know your zero on your stuff. Know how to load and unload; draw your pistol, etc, etc. 3 gun is about integrating together several little pieces into one big stage. Most competitions will not require you to have more than one gun on you (most common is start with a rifle or shotgun and have a holstered pistol.) To be honest, the best way to get into it is to find matches and start going. Don't sweat having the super-high speed gear and run with what you have. You'll find that the vast majority of competitors have a pretty simple setup. Only at the very top of the field does equipment really start to matter. A good shooter with basic equipment will go much farther than a not so good shooter with the best equipment. It all boils down to how well can you use what you have.

To start with, what do you have? What are your thoughts on gear, selection, what do you want to do, etc. We can start with what's running through your head, what's in your closet, and go from there.

 

[MYCAR47562]

Just watching thread

 

[Troy3267]

Well for starters I'm on somewhat of a budget, and want to start with a clean slate (new guns and gear)

Because of the budget, I prolly won't be able to get a semi 12ga anytime soon, so I will have to stick to the mossberg pump

For a rifle I know everyone seems to use an AR platform, but I feel better about handling an AK style (just my preference, its what I learned to shoot with)

The pistol is almost a no brainer for me. I have owned 2 full size taurus 24/7 pros in 9mm in the past and would trust my life to their accuracy and reliability (around 1500 rounds through the first one and never had a malfunction)

And as for gear I have no clue lol
Like I said I want to be open minded about this, and you obviously know more about this than I do, so what do you think?

 

[Troy3267]

Oh and I would be competing in the limited class to begin with by the way

 

[Dynamis]

Subscribing. Glad you posted this Troy. I am also interested in 3 gun this year.

 

[Junior_357]

The pistol is almost a no brainer for me. I have owned 2 full size taurus 24/7 pros in 9mm in the past and would trust my life to their accuracy and reliability (around 1500 rounds through the first one and never had a malfunction)

This is not a knock on Taurus outright...but I would not use a Taurus in competition. 1500 rounds is nothing for a competition gun. That's only a few matches. I know guys who put close to 20K rounds a year through their competition guns. Nothing is worse than paying your way into an event...then having an equipment failure that keeps you from competing.

I personally would go Glock, CZ or if budget allows, a high-end 1911 for the pistol. Well, that's not true. I'd go with a S&W 625...but I wouldn't be competing in 3-gun either.

GL on the endeavor!

 

[ngcsugrad09]

Well for starters I'm on somewhat of a budget, and want to start with a clean slate (new guns and gear)

Because of the budget, I prolly won't be able to get a semi 12ga anytime soon, so I will have to stick to the mossberg pump

For a rifle I know everyone seems to use an AR platform, but I feel better about handling an AK style (just my preference, its what I learned to shoot with)

The pistol is almost a no brainer for me. I have owned 2 full size taurus 24/7 pros in 9mm in the past and would trust my life to their accuracy and reliability (around 1500 rounds through the first one and never had a malfunction)

And as for gear I have no clue lol
Like I said I want to be open minded about this, and you obviously know more about this than I do, so what do you think?

Well, everything depends on what you want out of it. If you want to have fun and shoot some guns, what you have would work just fine. If the competitive bug starts to bite hard, you'll find everything to change really quick. Don't get caught up in an equipment race..

Some thoughts/questions on what you've mentioned:
Shotgun: You say you've got a Mossberg.. what kind? What kind of capacity does it have? Does it take removeable chokes? For 95% of 3 gun matches, anything that holds 5+1 and has a fixed choke will work. It's the remaining 5% that gets people. The last match I shot had some steel plates and clays at about 25-30 yards away. I watched guys with 18-20" cylinder bore guns not even get a pellet on the clays or steel. I didn't have a full choke on me and even a modified wouldn't drop some plates. Having extra chokes for stuff like that does make a difference. Also, having to stuff extra rounds in a shotgun takes extra time. It's not bad, but if you're somewhat competitive in nature you'll find in short order that an upgrade in capacity is necessary (most stages start with a fully loaded tube).

Rifle: Nothing wrong with an AK, however there are many disadvantages as you start to step up your game.. Unless you have a super accurate AK, the accuracy and lack of sights are going to hurt you. Can you hit 6" circles at 100 yards? The most common rifle targets are cardboard humanoid targets and steel plates. Unless you're a crack shot with an AK, you may be popping off a lot of rounds to knock down a steel plate. You may also pump a few rounds into a no-shoot/hostage if one is partially covering a target or may not even hit a target if one is reduced in size (partial targets occur a lot). The AK is slow to reload. You can practice all you want but you are never going to beat a rifle that sticks a mag straight in and has a bolt release. Rocking in a mag and charging the rifle takes time. Again, it depends on what you want to get out of it. For fun, shoot the AK. Otherwise an AR-15 offers a lot of advantages. The ARs are much more inherently accurate, easier to manipulate, easier to customize, etc, etc. I will say that it is much easier to swallow a miss or no-shoot if you know if was you that jerked the trigger instead of worrying about what the gun did/did not do. The design is efficient in the manual of arms, which will save you time. With an AR, the sights are MUCH better. I'm an iron sight guy myself.. the AK sights quite simply suck for any kind of semi-precision shooting. Yes they work on people or large animals, but taking shots on small targets under speed is much more difficult. If you want an excuse to buy something new, make it the rifle. If you want to buy an AR or need more persuasion, we can get into that later. On sights, you want good, fixed sights for limited. Flip ups lack adjustment and are designed as emergency use.

For pistols:
The Taurus is fine, but you'll fine that the Glock dominates. The 34/35 is the king, but a 17/22 police trade-in would work just fine.
Whatever you use, make sure you have a few mags and a GOOD HOLSTER. El cheapo especiale doesn't always cut the mustard. With 3 gun, you may be required to run, you may have to shoot from odd positions, etc. Having a pistol fall out of the holster is a disqualification on the day. You don't need a thumb strap or anything, just something that keeps the gun nice. I like the Talon Tactical A-10s (he'll make one for anything if you bring the gun.. usually). You'll find the ALS holster from Safariland (I think the 6377) as being a new favorite for the hardcore guys. Some of the major matches involve obstacles, etc that are quite josteling. Most matches it's the running/moving that gets people.

For gear:
A good belt is an investment. It is the basis for all of your gear and can be used for a long time as long as you don't abuse it. I've had the same Safariland belt for 5 years, and it was a hand me down! The CR Speed belts are the most popular, and run $50-60. Find some good Kydex mag pouches (2 pistol, 1 or two rifle). Again, they're an investment. I've got some Talon Tactical mag pouches. I personally have two mag pouches and a rifle mag pouch for the belt. If I feel the need for an extra mag with me, I'll stick if in a pocket for problems. As a bonus, you can utilize these same pouches for other stuff like classes, etc. I have the California Competition Works shell carriers. They're about $25 bucks each, having a few is worthwhile. If you need to save some, you can get a shotgun bandolier and wrap it around your waist or buy a dump pouch (Maxpedition Rollypolly type thing) and use one of these for a while. It's what I did for a long time. For a good belt, good holster, two pistol mag pouches, a rifle mag pouch and a dump pouch, plan on about $200 in retail pricing (top of the head estimate). It is a little steep, but it will last you for a long time. If you do some research and shop around, you can come in under that.

Unfortunately 3 gun can get expensive. You've got 3 mouths to feed and all of the support equipment for them. Have you ever tried it before? Have you ever shot an action pistol match? Any competitive experience? I'm just trying to gauge where you're coming from and we can keep going.

 

[ngcsugrad09]

If anyone else has any questions, feel free to ask. I've been doing this for a while and am happy to give any assistance/opinions, etc, etc.

 

[Troy3267]

Unfortunately no I have not had and competition experience (I do set up small courses on my property and run them, but I know that's nothing like the real thing)

Right now I want to do it for fun, but I have a feeling I will get into it (however I cannot afford to buy 3 match_grade guns right now lol)

As I said before, I am starting from the ground up, so I'm getting a new pistol, rifle and shotty

I was thinking about a 12 ga mossberg 500a persuader which has an 8+1 capacity but no choke (something I will have to fix)

I would like an ar for this, but it is a cost thing. As I can buy I nice ak74 and a mossberg for the same price as a half decent ar

I was hoping you wouldn't. Push me toward glocks lol I have had one in the past and just didn't like the feel of it, but if it is a must (especially for a budget) I guess ill learn to like it lol

Is there any other cheaper solutions for the rifle or will I be at a disadvantage without an ar?

And for the gear, I have heard of people making their own kydex mag holders by buying a sheet of kydex and molding it around their mags...any thoughts on that? If it works, it cuts the price from $30 to around $8 per mag holder