LEO's Checking Firearm Serial Numbers at Traffic Stops

[Dynamis]

Since it was discussed in another thread and I am interested in discussing this topic, I would like to suggest that all law enforcement officers here at ODT please state your case on this issue. I know what the 4thA says, but I'd like to hear it from the men in blue (or black).

Even though topics like this will tend to stray (yes I am guilty), I ask that this particular thread PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC as I feel this will be a very informative thread for future reference.

Thanks,
CCW

 

[drtybykr]

This could get interesting

 

[Ballplayer]

Don't forget game wardens, they check on a regular basis if your being charged on something else. Over the limit, over bait etc.

 

[Flammenwerfer]

I'd be very interested to hear what some LEO's have to say..... To Me if they are doing it at routine traffic stops, that seems to be a waste of time and further more tax payers money. Reasonable circumstances may dictate otherwise and I agree with that. Especially in cases of no license or insurance.

 

[hbrad3]

I am not an LEO but I do work with alot of them. I mentioned this discussion to a couple of them. They both said that if they see a gun in a car when they pull someone over they are much more likely to strike up a conversation about firearms than they are to hassle someone. I was stopped with 2 assault rifles and 3 handguns in the front seat and all the officer said was "Don't grab yours and I wont grab mine." We then made plans to go to the range. Oh yeah, and he let me go with a warning. The only gun I have ever had them check is one of those "too good to be true" deals and I specifically asked for my own benefit. I'm sure in certain areas it is more dangerous than others but in general, I don't think most LEOs are "out to get" gun owners.

 

[Ken Ford]

Ok, I will start.
I guess the easiest way to explain MY opinion is:
It would depend on the circumstances concerning how I know there is a gun in the car. Let us say I stop a car for speeding and I see a gun in the car, and the driver displays a weapon permit with his license. Assuming there are no other factors (drunk, suspicious odors, ongoing arguments, burglary tools, ect, ect, ect) there would be no further need for me to inquire further. Fuses blow and lights sometimes lights do just burn out. (I have had drivers VERY surprised that I did not want to look at their gun's numbers.)

Since the other thread was referenced, let us describe that same stop. After I approach the driver and speak to him, he tells me that he has just obtained several guns in a trade with someone that he does not know and used a Class III weapon as barter. I can see that he is not legally able to own the original weapon and the trade was not facilitated in accordance with federal law. I might be a LITTLE suspicious that we have several laws broken and or stolen property. I would be willing to bet that anyone that is missing his or her weapon would want me to look closer.

JUST because a person has a gun, I will not get excited or overly concerned. However, remember a traffic stop is not a random encounter with a person, there has already been a violation of the law. (Big consideration in the eyes of the court) Where there is one violation there is often more.

I do not work a traffic unit, and most LEOs do not, so while you people reading this are most likely decent people, there is a large portion of person that are not. The bad guys out there get around the same way you do. They also spend a large portion of their time trying to look and sound just like you do...decent law-abiding people. They are neither, and often will want to do me harm so that they are not caught, or get to someone else and commit another crime. I have been fooled by the best, and I have been wrong in my first assessment of a person. Some people look and act somewhat odd, but do not intend to do anything wrong. (Come on we all know at least one person like that.)

Some things we take into consideration are:
1) Time of day/night, area... is the stop in a know crime area? 2) Persons demeanor... are they angry/aggressive, looking around for an avenue of escape, ect. 3) Do I observe any other clues that there are other crimes occurring? 4) Any other circumstances that make me feel as if it would not be safe to leave a weapon in those people's hands.


The Georgia and US Supreme Courts have made it plain that we cannot randomly check people for weapons. We must have reasonable suspicions that there is a crime being committed or about to occur. (Yes, if we think we are about to be hurt there is a crime about to occur.) They hand down guidelines for us to follow fairly often, and we have mandatory classes on updated laws every year.

There are cops out there that are ...holes. However, they will be that way whether or not there is a gun involved or not. If I can, I will explain the reasons for most everything I do while on a stop or call.
Am I perfect and always in a great mood?..... NO and neither is anyone else. But most of the LEOs that I know try to be decent with everyone.

I am sure some of you will try to pick out some parts of this and say I am wrong but you have to look at the "totality of the circumstances". Every encounter is different and has different set of circumstances to base my decisions on. If this offends or inconveniences' someone then I am sorry. However, I will do what I feel necessary within the guidelines of the law and case law to see my family at the end of the day. That also includes not going to federal prison for violating someone's civil rights.
Ken

 

[Rick Terscale]

Ok, I will start.
I guess the easiest way to explain MY opinion is:
It would depend on the circumstances concerning how I know there is a gun in the car. Let us say I stop a car for speeding and I see a gun in the car, and the driver displays a weapon permit with his license. Assuming there are no other factors (drunk, suspicious odors, ongoing arguments, burglary tools, ect, ect, ect) there would be no further need for me to inquire further. Fuses blow and lights sometimes lights do just burn out. (I have had drivers VERY surprised that I did not want to look at their gun's numbers.)

Since the other thread was referenced, let us describe that same stop. After I approach the driver and speak to him, he tells me that he has just obtained several guns in a trade with someone that he does not know and used a Class III weapon as barter. I can see that he is not legally able to own the original weapon and the trade was not facilitated in accordance with federal law. I might be a LITTLE suspicious that we have several laws broken and or stolen property. I would be willing to bet that anyone that is missing his or her weapon would want me to look closer.

JUST because a person has a gun, I will not get excited or overly concerned. However, remember a traffic stop is not a random encounter with a person, there has already been a violation of the law. (Big consideration in the eyes of the court) Where there is one violation there is often more.

I do not work a traffic unit, and most LEOs do not, so while you people reading this are most likely decent people, there is a large portion of person that are not. The bad guys out there get around the same way you do. They also spend a large portion of their time trying to look and sound just like you do...decent law-abiding people. They are neither, and often will want to do me harm so that they are not caught, or get to someone else and commit another crime. I have been fooled by the best, and I have been wrong in my first assessment of a person. Some people look and act somewhat odd, but do not intend to do anything wrong. (Come on we all know at least one person like that.)

Some things we take into consideration are:
1) Time of day/night, area... is the stop in a know crime area? 2) Persons demeanor... are they angry/aggressive, looking around for an avenue of escape, ect. 3) Do I observe any other clues that there are other crimes occurring? 4) Any other circumstances that make me feel as if it would not be safe to leave a weapon in those people's hands.


The Georgia and US Supreme Courts have made it plain that we cannot randomly check people for weapons. We must have reasonable suspicions that there is a crime being committed or about to occur. (Yes, if we think we are about to be hurt there is a crime about to occur.) They hand down guidelines for us to follow fairly often, and we have mandatory classes on updated laws every year.

There are cops out there that are ...holes. However, they will be that way whether or not there is a gun involved or not. If I can, I will explain the reasons for most everything I do while on a stop or call.
Am I perfect and always in a great mood?..... NO and neither is anyone else. But most of the LEOs that I know try to be decent with everyone.

I am sure some of you will try to pick out some parts of this and say I am wrong but you have to look at the "totality of the circumstances". Every encounter is different and has different set of circumstances to base my decisions on. If this offends or inconveniences' someone then I am sorry. However, I will do what I feel necessary within the guidelines of the law and case law to see my family at the end of the day. That also includes not going to federal prison for violating someone's civil rights.
Ken

If only all cops thought like you, the world would be a better place. I think way too many LEOs live by a Zero tolerance rule and don't stop to form their own assessment of a given situation. We're all human, so I just make sure that no matter which cop pulls me over or checks me out, I'll have absolutely nothing to worry about. I make sure the outcome is controlled by ME.

 

[Ken Ford]

I think way too many LEOs live by a Zero tolerance rule and don't stop to form their own assessment of a given situation. .

Yeah, we don't like that kind either! LOL
Some of them will give their their own mothers speeding tickets... We try peer pressure but sometimes that does not work.

 

[Dynamis]

Very good post ofcford. I'd like to hear more from other LEO's.

 

[drtybykr]

+1 good post. ofcford, out of curiosity, has your department had any training, or briefing concerning the passage of SB 308, and all of the new carry laws?