C93 (HK33 clone) Any Advice?
- Thread starter Xcaliber
- Start date
I would tell you to save a little more and you might be able to find a Vector V93. They are a lot better quality build and you can shoot them as they are not real HK 93's.
The Vector version would be a better choice, though vector rifles have been known to have an issue or two. The Century C93s that I have handled feel like their actions are very gritty compared to a better made H&K clone or an actual H&K. Mags for the Century, since they are H&K mags are not cheap, at least not compared to AR mags or even AK mags so if you are like me and want at least a dozen mags you might be better off buying an entry level AR and mags there, likely have the same amount in the AR as the C93 by the end, maybe less. Other then that, from what I have of the C93 is they are about only good for plinking and playing around, not serious work, and if it is like the rest of the non-AK Century builds I have played with the rifle is likely to be accurate but group to the left or the right (Don't ask why, seen the same thing with a Century FAL and 2 Centmes in the hands of myself and four others.)
Most of the info you get on the C93 is going to be hearsay as not many people actually have them they just repeat what they have heard or read on the internet. I own two. A rifle version that has been re-built and pistol that I am currently turning into an SBR and having re-built. The thing about these rifles is you have to have love for the H&K style delayed roller block action rifle already and be willing to put more money into the C93 to really get the full potential out of them. I would never buy a C93 sight unseen.
There are a few issues that a buyer needs to be aware of before they actually buy a C93 rifle. First is the current bolt gap. You check this with a set of feeler gauges. You can pick them up at Autozone for about $6. The safe bolt gap for a C93 rifle is from .004 to .020. Actually word is H&K says it is alright for the spec to go all the way up to .025. Typically for a Century C93 these days the bolt gap will fall between .010 and .014 which is not perfect but serviceable. Also check for canted sights. Earlier models had a real problem with this though I guess Century got tired of having rifles returned because I haven't seen a lot of canted sights in the past year or so. Finally make sure the cocking tube is straight and the trunnion is welded correctly. Also look the rifle over and make sure all the welds are sealed up and the over all build quality is good to go.
The real reason the C93 rifles are good buys is because they make great kit guns. There is a guy out in Oklahoma, (Jeff Walters), who does amazing work with H&K rifles, including clones. Starting with a C93 and putting a few hundred dollars more into it you can have essentially an H&K 93 rifle. Since these rifles are made with a lot of real H&K parts all it takes is a good quality barrel, lower and someone to hand fit it all together and you can have a serious fighting rifle that will rival a lot of other rifles out there for around $850-$900 and it will put a Vector to shame in terms of accuracy, build quality, finish, reliability and value. The best part about having Jeff work on your C93 when you get it back your bolt gap will be solid at around .018 or so and it will no longer "float" like the factory bolt gap does. A rebuilt C93 is a tank. To anwser your question about how long it will last, all the worn parts have been replaced and the barrel is a cold hammer forged barrel that is brand new on a new receiver. It will outlast both of us and then some.
As far as magazines go the 40 round used mags are plentiful. There are mods out there to convert the C93 rifle to take AR15 mags, though they are expensive. I have been testing and using the plastic MKE 93 mags for awhile now and I have been very happy with them. The price is still $30 but they handle better being a 30 round mag over the 40 round mags. http://www.robertrtg.com/hk93mag.html
OP if you want a pinking gun the C93 is not a bad choice but you really need to do your homework before pulling the trigger on one. If you are looking for a fighting gun you really need to spend some time around them and decide if the H&K style delayed roller block action rifle is for you because it isn't for everyone and as a fighting gun out of the box the Century C93 isn't. You will have to put more money into it for that IMO. That C93+$400 total invested to turn a C93 into a fighting rifle could easily make a great AK-47 or buy a good quality AR15. Some things to think about.
There are a few issues that a buyer needs to be aware of before they actually buy a C93 rifle. First is the current bolt gap. You check this with a set of feeler gauges. You can pick them up at Autozone for about $6. The safe bolt gap for a C93 rifle is from .004 to .020. Actually word is H&K says it is alright for the spec to go all the way up to .025. Typically for a Century C93 these days the bolt gap will fall between .010 and .014 which is not perfect but serviceable. Also check for canted sights. Earlier models had a real problem with this though I guess Century got tired of having rifles returned because I haven't seen a lot of canted sights in the past year or so. Finally make sure the cocking tube is straight and the trunnion is welded correctly. Also look the rifle over and make sure all the welds are sealed up and the over all build quality is good to go.
The real reason the C93 rifles are good buys is because they make great kit guns. There is a guy out in Oklahoma, (Jeff Walters), who does amazing work with H&K rifles, including clones. Starting with a C93 and putting a few hundred dollars more into it you can have essentially an H&K 93 rifle. Since these rifles are made with a lot of real H&K parts all it takes is a good quality barrel, lower and someone to hand fit it all together and you can have a serious fighting rifle that will rival a lot of other rifles out there for around $850-$900 and it will put a Vector to shame in terms of accuracy, build quality, finish, reliability and value. The best part about having Jeff work on your C93 when you get it back your bolt gap will be solid at around .018 or so and it will no longer "float" like the factory bolt gap does. A rebuilt C93 is a tank. To anwser your question about how long it will last, all the worn parts have been replaced and the barrel is a cold hammer forged barrel that is brand new on a new receiver. It will outlast both of us and then some.
As far as magazines go the 40 round used mags are plentiful. There are mods out there to convert the C93 rifle to take AR15 mags, though they are expensive. I have been testing and using the plastic MKE 93 mags for awhile now and I have been very happy with them. The price is still $30 but they handle better being a 30 round mag over the 40 round mags. http://www.robertrtg.com/hk93mag.html
OP if you want a pinking gun the C93 is not a bad choice but you really need to do your homework before pulling the trigger on one. If you are looking for a fighting gun you really need to spend some time around them and decide if the H&K style delayed roller block action rifle is for you because it isn't for everyone and as a fighting gun out of the box the Century C93 isn't. You will have to put more money into it for that IMO. That C93+$400 total invested to turn a C93 into a fighting rifle could easily make a great AK-47 or buy a good quality AR15. Some things to think about.
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good info. no, I wouldn't want to spend an extra $400 to work it. I just want a cheap HK clone plinker (I never had 1) as I have AK/ARs already (to fill the "battle rifle" role). I have read that the bolt gap CHANGES over time (as you fire the fun), is this true? you going to any gun shows any time soon? perhaps I can meet you and have you choose/look over some C93s for me? this is assuming there is any and they are being sold for $500.
There are good C93's leaving the factories these days. I traded one to a friend not to long ago it came from the factory with a .014 bolt gap and dropped to a .012 it has held that way though almost 1,000 rounds now. Yes the bolt gap can and most likely will change as you shoot the rifle the first few times. Typically because the barrel is moving forward on the Century builds the bolt gap decreases after a few hundred rounds. You will start out around a .014 (hopefully) and it will drop to around a .012 or to a .010 I don't really know every rifle is diffrent. I have found that the drop is around a .004 change on average for me though. As long as the gun is inside that .004 to .020 spec I really wouldn't worry about it. Yes perfection is supposed to be .018 but even if your rifle is .005 as long as your bolt gap is not moving it is nothing to worry about since you are shooting semi-auto. The bolt gap issue is one of those things that has been blown way out of proportion by the internet and people repeating hearsay. Bolt gap on a delayed roller block action rifle is something to be aware of but because the spec range is so massive and the fact you are shooting semi auto you really don't need to stress over it. Find a C93 with a bolt gap between .010 to .014 (that is about as good as it is going to get from Century), shoot a few hundred rounds though it to figure out what your bolt gap is going to settle at and then if you want replace the rollers with some +4 rollers to bring your bolt gap up into a more internet suitable range. http://www.robertrtg.com/hk93roller.html
For plinking an out of the box C93 so long as everything is checked out is a good deal. They are fun to shoot, they chuck brass into the next zip code so I hope you don't plan on reloading. I don't advise you to buy them from a gun show. In order to check the bolt gap you have to drop the hammer and this requires a pull of the trigger, something you will not be able to do at a gun show. You will also need to cock the rifle a few times to feel the smoothness of the action and to make sure the cocking tube is straight. I have never found a dealer at a gun show willing to let you take the gun apart and in some ways that is what you have to do with the C93 to check it out as sad as it is. The best two ways to buy a C93 is to either find a local dealer that has a few in stock and see if they will let you come and inspect them (bring a set of feeler gauges with you), You probably wont be able to do a full inspection like pull the bolt apart to see if it has been ground down but you should be able to do things like check the bolt gap, pull the handguards off and check the trunnion welding and check the rifle over to make sure the welds are all finished and the rifle is finished correctly. Unfortunately you will not know if if the bolt has been ground down to fit or if the ejector is good to go and see if the ejector spring or weak or not. Then again you might get lucky and the dealer will let you fully dissemble the rifle if they know you and know that you know what you are doing they might. When I buy a C93 I buy them online and have them shipped to a local table top FFL. This way a can completely strip the rifle down and check all the components. If the rifle has issues I will send it back and exchange it. Luckily the guns I have bought have been good to go. My first rifle came from AIM Surplus. Unfortunately they are no longer carrying the C93 but plenty of other online dealers are. Either way when you do your inspection don't forget to bring a set of feeler gauges and bring some gloves because these things are filthy from the factory. Really they are some of the nastiest new rifles I have ever handled.
For plinking an out of the box C93 so long as everything is checked out is a good deal. They are fun to shoot, they chuck brass into the next zip code so I hope you don't plan on reloading. I don't advise you to buy them from a gun show. In order to check the bolt gap you have to drop the hammer and this requires a pull of the trigger, something you will not be able to do at a gun show. You will also need to cock the rifle a few times to feel the smoothness of the action and to make sure the cocking tube is straight. I have never found a dealer at a gun show willing to let you take the gun apart and in some ways that is what you have to do with the C93 to check it out as sad as it is. The best two ways to buy a C93 is to either find a local dealer that has a few in stock and see if they will let you come and inspect them (bring a set of feeler gauges with you), You probably wont be able to do a full inspection like pull the bolt apart to see if it has been ground down but you should be able to do things like check the bolt gap, pull the handguards off and check the trunnion welding and check the rifle over to make sure the welds are all finished and the rifle is finished correctly. Unfortunately you will not know if if the bolt has been ground down to fit or if the ejector is good to go and see if the ejector spring or weak or not. Then again you might get lucky and the dealer will let you fully dissemble the rifle if they know you and know that you know what you are doing they might. When I buy a C93 I buy them online and have them shipped to a local table top FFL. This way a can completely strip the rifle down and check all the components. If the rifle has issues I will send it back and exchange it. Luckily the guns I have bought have been good to go. My first rifle came from AIM Surplus. Unfortunately they are no longer carrying the C93 but plenty of other online dealers are. Either way when you do your inspection don't forget to bring a set of feeler gauges and bring some gloves because these things are filthy from the factory. Really they are some of the nastiest new rifles I have ever handled.
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that's a lot of effort to find a working gun. 1 last question, I heard these guns (& all HK guns & clones) get dirty really really fast due to the blowback action. Is this true? are they dirtier than an AR15 for the same rounds fired?
Not really I would put them on par with an AR. They are pretty easy to clean because you have to run them dry so clean up really involves pulling the bolt and wiping every thing down. They are a breeze to clean.
