The prices set on the unhampered market correspond to an equilibrium of demand and supply.

[spencer60]

I can answer the bolded part truthfully. Not where I shop. Georgia Gun Store, Five Star Pawn, Freedom Mill, DG&P, Alexander's and some others... All dealers locally, that are selling at or within a few percentage points of pre-covid pricing. I was posting up TONS of those deals in the Steals and Deals section, and got slapped down, my threads locked or deleted and awarded infraction points.

The deals are out there, but it discouraged to post them all here. We can banter back and forth as to the reasons why... but to this argument it doesn't really matter. They ARE suppressed and discouraged, that's the end result.

While ODT is "part of the market"... true... What happens here is grossly pronounced over what I have seen in the market. Look at the price of used Glocks here. I just bought a BNIB from a local dealer, a G19 Gen4, for $478. P365's for $500. A Gen5 Glock 19 for $517... The much touted "rare" G19x... $569 new at a dealer. I see DG&P and Five Start posting AR's in the $600 range...

I am NOT saying people shouldn't list for what they want, and I know the rules about crapping within someone's listing and I will abide by that.

I am merely arguing that the statement of "the prices here are inline with the market", isn't really true.

Again though, you are looking a certain part of the market as being the reference point of 'the market'. Mainly the folks who are holding down pricing to increase volume, or simply to generate goodwill. They are no more 'the market' than 'Cheaper Than Dirt' is.... the market is made up of the whole spectrum of pricing and options.

There is no way to be 'in line' with a market. The cheapest price for a good isn't the market, any more than the most expensive price is, and if you are more expensive than that, all you did was set a new price point.

If you want to talk about being in line with the average or median price in a market, that would make sense, but even there you have to look at factors beyond the actual price. Things like experience and willingness to travel or even available time all change the equation on what the 'market price' is for people.

While I agree that some of the prices here may be higher than you've seen in other places, they are just as as much 'the market' as any of the stores you mentioned.

If they sell for that higher price it's because factors other than price were more important to the buyer. If they don't sell then they aren't part of the market at all.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

Again though, you are looking a certain part of the market as being the reference point of 'the market'. Mainly the folks who are holding down pricing to increase volume, or simply to generate goodwill. They are no more 'the market' than 'Cheaper Than Dirt' is.... the market is made up of the whole spectrum of pricing and options.

There is no way to be 'in line' with a market. The cheapest price for a good isn't the market, any more than the most expensive price is, and if you are more expensive than that, all you did was set a new price point.

If you want to talk about being in line with the average or median price in a market, that would make sense, but even there you have to look at factors beyond the actual price. Things like experience and willingness to travel or even available time all change the equation on what the 'market price' is for people.

While I agree that some of the prices here may be higher than you've seen in other places, they are just as as much 'the market' as any of the stores you mentioned.

If they sell for that higher price it's because factors other than price were more important to the buyer. If they don't sell then they aren't part of the market at all.

I have talked to a few of them and asked how they are still selling at those prices. They told me point blank, that the price of the guns hasn't increased to them. A glock today costs the same as a Glock did in January. So they are selling them for the same markup and profit that they did before. I had two of them tell me point blank, they don't want to take advantage and price gouge, just because they can. They said that's not how they want to do business, they care about their customers.

It's sad to me that that level of integrity, is sorely lacking on ODT. I can't change it, there isn't anything that we "want done"... It's a free country, gouge your ODT brothers if you want. But expecting everyone to smile and pretend that it's not ruining this place... that's just not realistic of you...

 

[SirBannedAlot]

Disagree, that only partially applies to the current situation.
Example: the .22lr shortage lasted as long as it did because .22lr flippers did their best to buy up all the supply and force people to pay their much higher prices.

That's a good point. I don't think that's possible with the guns, as someone spending millions to buy up all the guns would raise flags... lol

But yeah, people think there is gonna be a rush on ammo, so a bunch of people buy up stupid amounts and hoard it, creating, or at least contributing to it, and then as the shortage materializes, they use that to justify charging 4x what they paid for it.

We saw people doing the same with toilet paper and hand sanitizer when Covid broke out. When a storm hits TX, we see Atlanta gas stations crank up prices to $8 a gallon, even though they paid the old rates for whats in their tanks...

There are always sleazebags who will try to take advantage of people. I feel that part of Capitalism and the Free Market is to point out and acknowledge those that do that. Instead, we see people suppressing that information and punishing those that expose it, and I don't think that's how things are supposed to work...

 

[MRH]

To an extent, yes. But the market allows people a voice. Hell, I can pay to put up a billboard to cheaper prices next door to your business if I want to, in the real world. lol

The number of people "whining", is a fraction of the number of people who are just as unhappy with things, but that decide to just keep quiet so that they don't get in trouble...

Again, I think it is less about the prices, and more about the ARGUMENT or EXCUSES given... If you want to charge $1000 for a stock Glock. Go for it. Nobody has said that you shouldn't be allowed to.

But if you are going to make the argument of "supply and demand" as to WHY you feel it is worth that much... then I feel like its fair game to pick apart that argument and show why that is simply not the case... that what goes on here, isn't reflected by the market at large. THAT'S the argument and debate here... not about whether you are allowed to charge that much. You are.

It's that your justification is weak sauce, that's all. Those of us that list guns at MARKET prices, simply see things differently. Sure, someone out there might think that my Glock is worth $900. But I don't think that it is. When I can buy a new one now, at a LGS for $500, I would feel like a schmuck trying to get $900 for my used one.

Others, see no problem with it... It is what it is...

I see what you are saying and don't disagree. I'm not defending either side, and I haven't listed anything for sale. If I did, it would be fair. On that I also agree. On the flip side, I am also saying if the scabs want to list their guns, ammo, or whatever for double the retail price, that's their business. It's my choice not to do business with them. I just don't care. Anyone who refuses to do their homework and know better get what they get...Or perhaps some less desirables will pay because they have little choice, if you know what I mean.

 

[spencer60]

I have talked to a few of them and asked how they are still selling at those prices. They told me point blank, that the price of the guns hasn't increased to them. A glock today costs the same as a Glock did in January. So they are selling them for the same markup and profit that they did before. I had two of them tell me point blank, they don't want to take advantage and price gouge, just because they can. They said that's not how they want to do business, they care about their customers.

It's sad to me that that level of integrity, is sorely lacking on ODT. I can't change it, there isn't anything that we "want done"... It's a free country, gouge your ODT brothers if you want. But expecting everyone to smile and pretend that it's not ruining this place... that's just not realistic of you...

That's very noble, but probably not 100% true. They are buying goodwill, which is important to a business that wants to stay going for the long term and build customer loyalty but doesn't have a lot of bearing on ODT.

And for every one of those stores there's a CTD marking everything up to the max, making an immediate profit and not particularly worrying about their reputation.

Like I said before, I'm not arguing that some guns aren't priced high on ODT. I'm just saying you can't say those prices aren't in-line with 'the market' when ODT is simply a smaller reflection of whole market across the board.

The price ranges I'm seeing on ODT are exactly what the overall gun market today looks like out in the big, wide world. Some priced high, some low, and a bunch in the middle.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

I see what you are saying and don't disagree. I'm not defending either side, and I haven't listed anything for sale. If I did, it would be fair. On that I also agree. On the flip side, I am also saying if the scabs want to list their guns, ammo, or whatever for double the retail price, that's their business. It's my choice not to do business with them. I just don't care. Anyone who refuses to do their homework and know better get what they get...Or perhaps some less desirables will pay because they have little choice, if you know what I mean.

That last part... I don't like that. It's something that we all know, but try to ignore and pretend doesn't go on. Same with unlicensed dealers. People that are selling guns AS a side business. We like to turn a blind eye to that stuff, and honestly it makes me uneasy.

Anti-gunners are pushing hard to ban online and private gun sales. I hate to think that we might be turning a blind eye to stuff, that in the end may be used as ammo against all of us...

But not much we can do I guess...

 

[harrycalahan]

Or...the heat of the meat is directionally proportional to the angle of the dangle given that the mass of the (-) is constant, I think.

Keep your dick in a vise!

 

[jackrabbit]

The number of people "whining", is a fraction of the number of people who are just as unhappy with things, but that decide to just keep quiet so that they don't get in trouble...


Exactly...

 

[MRH]

That last part... I don't like that. It's something that we all know, but try to ignore and pretend doesn't go on. Same with unlicensed dealers. People that are selling guns AS a side business. We like to turn a blind eye to that stuff, and honestly it makes me uneasy.

Anti-gunners are pushing hard to ban online and private gun sales. I hate to think that we might be turning a blind eye to stuff, that in the end may be used as ammo against all of us...

But not much we can do I guess...

Dangerous liberty and all...I have no proof of anyone running a side business, and doubt if many are doing that at all. And the left and antis are going to smear and lie about us anyway. Screw them.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

Dangerous liberty and all...I have no proof of anyone running a side business, and doubt if many are doing that at all. And the left and antis are going to smear and lie about us anyway. Screw them.

There absolutely are. Guarantee it.

As for the anti's... yeah, they will lie and do what they always do... But we don't have to freaking help them out, do we?