Straw Purchase Question

Gingerbeard Man

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Sheeeeeeit you guys.....I just bought all this at Home Depot. I guess I'll see you when I get out of the clink. This was one of my biggest straw purchases.
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rosewood

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To me a "straw purchase" should be when you buy a firearm for someone that otherwise couldn't legally buy it. If you are buying it for someone that can legally own one, why should it matter?

If a wife bought a gun using her husbands money cause he was out of town and couldn't make the sale and he has a valid carry permit, why should it matter?


Best thing to do is just don't ask don't tell. There is no reason the wife needs to tell the gun counter who/why she is buying the gun, none of their business. If she can legally purchase it, that is all they need to know. Now if she turns around and gives it to a person not legal to own it, then the ATF needs to take that up with here directly.

This is just my opinion by the way, no legal bearing at all.

Rosewood
 

gh1950

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Best thing to do is just don't ask don't tell. There is no reason the wife needs to tell the gun counter who/why she is buying the gun, none of their business. If she can legally purchase it, that is all they need to know. Now if she turns around and gives it to a person not legal to own it, then the ATF needs to take that up with here directly.

This is just my opinion by the way, no legal bearing at all.

Rosewood

This us exactly the argument that was made to, and rejected by the Supreme Court.

The fact that the ultimate purchaser was legally entitled to purchase and own the gun is irrelevant to the crime of lying on the 4473, Actually you can't "say" anything to the FFL because it won't complete the sale. The fact that you lied and committed a straw sale will always come out after the fact through extrinsic evidence.
 

GAgunLAWbooklet

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Heck, I had an FFL dealership refuse to sell me a bolt action 22 rifle when I told them I intended to give it as a gift to my over-18 nephew for a birthday present!

They wrongly thought that was some kind of straw purchase but it would not have been. Nonetheless they refused to process the transaction, so there was no sale that day.
 

rosewood

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Heck, I had an FFL dealership refuse to sell me a bolt action 22 rifle when I told them I intended to give it as a gift to my over-18 nephew for a birthday present!

They wrongly thought that was some kind of straw purchase but it would not have been. Nonetheless they refused to process the transaction, so there was no sale that day.
I think the confusion is what "actual purchaser" means. Does that mean you are the one paying for it, or the one that will ultimately take ownership. That is the confusing part.

Like I said, don't ask don't tell. Gun counter employees do not always understand laws, so the less they know about your situation the better.

I did run into a situation where a boy was about to buy a shotgun, he was 18 and his parents were with him. After he found out that the background check would take some time, they said unless you have a carry permit. His dad said he had one and he would just buy it then. The employee wisely said we cannot do that. If you are buying it for him, it is against the law. I concurred and told him the same, I think we finally explained it to them where they understood it.

Had his dad came in and bought the gun himself, there wouldn't have been an issue and the employee couldn't have been held responsible for anything that the purchaser did wrong. But because they told the employee what they were doing, it was then a problem.

Rosewood
 

gh1950

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I think the confusion is what "actual purchaser" means. Does that mean you are the one paying for it, or the one that will ultimately take ownership. That is the confusing part.

Like I said, don't ask don't tell. Gun counter employees do not always understand laws, so the less they know about your situation the better.

I did run into a situation where a boy was about to buy a shotgun, he was 18 and his parents were with him. After he found out that the background check would take some time, they said unless you have a carry permit. His dad said he had one and he would just buy it then. The employee wisely said we cannot do that. If you are buying it for him, it is against the law. I concurred and told him the same, I think we finally explained it to them where they understood it.

Had his dad came in and bought the gun himself, there wouldn't have been an issue and the employee couldn't have been held responsible for anything that the purchaser did wrong. But because they told the employee what they were doing, it was then a problem.

Rosewood

According to the Supreme Court, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate owner advances the money for the purchase.

"Buying if for" someone is not a straw purchase if the ultimate owner reimburses the in store purchaser after the purchase.

The problem arises that now that the Supreme Court has set down some reasonably bright lines, BATF makes absolutely NO effort to educate the public or FFL about the elements of a straw purchase.

I have watched FFLs decline sales where the man says "I'm buying this for my wife" who is with him and looking at guns, although that is a perfectly legal sale, if he is the source of funds and intends it as a gift. He doesn't have to say the magic words, " I am buying this gun, as a gift for my wife."
 

rosewood

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According to the Supreme Court, it's only a straw purchase if the ultimate owner advances the money for the purchase.

"Buying if for" someone is not a straw purchase if the ultimate owner reimburses the in store purchaser after the purchase.
This is good information. So if the dad had bought the gun with money in his pocket, then left the store and then the son handed him reimbursement for the purchase, it would be legal by the Supreme Court?

Do you know the case/ruling that clarified this?

Thanks,

Rosewood
 
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