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Silencer/suppressor rules

I keep rolled-up B&W photocopy of my NFA tax forms in my range bag, and /or the carrying case for that particular item.

I "think" a good clear photo on your phone would work too.
 
So give us an example of an officer developing an obtaining probable cause/reasonable suspicion. Interesting that the ATF's ruling/law doesn't hold any weight and can be ignored. I'm no lawyer by any means.

If a L.E.O.in Georgia has probable cause to believe that you possess a silencer or a machine gun or a short barreled long gun,
he can arrest you ...unless you make the affirmative defense of showing that your weapon is legally registered with the feds.

This "you don't have to show this tax form to anybody but the IRS or ATF" is a bunch of Internet BS --at least in Georgia, because our STATE laws put the burden on you OF SHOWING your exotic weapon is legal.
 
So give us an example of an officer developing an obtaining probable cause/reasonable suspicion. Interesting that the ATF's ruling/law doesn't hold any weight and can be ignored. I'm no lawyer by any means.
I was assuming he was piggybacking off of the previous example being a traffic stop and there were suppressors rolling around in the backseat floorboard.

I wouldn’t mind showing the cop that they are legally owned because on the flip side of that, I would want illegally owned items to be identified under the same circumstances if bad guys were pulled over with illegal items

also, the ATF can’t make laws
 
I keep rolled-up B&W photocopy of my NFA tax forms in my range bag, and /or the carrying case for that particular item.

I "think" a good clear photo on your phone would work too.
I do, too. But I thought I remember something about needing the original (not a copy) for such. I could be wrong but that point sticks in my head for some reason.
 
"So give us an example of an officer developing and obtaining probable cause..."

PROBABLE CAUSE is based on a cop believing that you have broken the law by evaluating all the facts and circumstances of the situation everything known to the cop in any reasonable inferences the cop might make.


The easiest example to think of would be a cop that stopped by a local shooting range just to see what's going on there-- no 911 call brought him there; he's just on patrol.

This cop looks along the firing line and he sees you shooting what looks like a shotgun with a 14 inch barrel and a full shoulder stock.

Cop asks the range counter clerk if the guy in firing lane number four (you) has a short barrel shotgun. The clerk looks and says "yeah I think that's what that is."

Then this cop asks if you the guy in lane #4 (you) have any paperwork to show it's registered legally with the feds. The clerk shrugs and says "I don't know-- we don't ask for that."

At this point, cop has probable cause to believe that you are in possession of a short-barreled shotgun, the possession of which is a crime under Georgia law.
Though having it legally registered with the feds is an affirmative defense, it is not something the cop has to establish the lack of before arresting you.

But, i'm sure any cop would ask before arresting you. And if you say "I don't have to show you any paperwork, cop!
I've got the second amendment on my side. I've got 4th and 5th Amendment rights keep my private information private. I've got IRS tax law on my side. I've got a reasonable expectation of privacy as to treasury related documents....


You can be properly, legally, arrested, With iron clad , crystal clear, probable cause to arrest you for this crime .
 
This is what I was referring to.

Yes. The approved application received from ATF serves as evidence of registration of the NFA firearm. This document must be made available upon request of any ATF officer. It is suggested that a photocopy of the approved application be carried by the possessor when the weapon is being transported.

[26 U.S.C. 5841(e); 27 CFR 479.101]

 
First off, I'm not arguing with you or looking for confrontation. Learning information is my goal.

I have a few holes to poke at. First, just seeing someone with an item, doesnt mean that its illegal. Terry vs Ohio, a guy merely standing outside a bank with a ski mask, burlap sack, gun, etc is NOT enough reasonable suspicion/probable cause. The officer MUST have something, thats not a hunch, that he can POINT/SHOW that with ALL information at that time to say that the person was/actively engaged in a crime or attempting to commit a crime. 2nd of all, does he have a ruler in his hand to actively measure the barrel to actually know its under 16 inches? Just as in someone speeding, the act of me passing an officer on the road DOES NOT prove that I was speeding, even if he is going the speed limit. Only a speed detection device can prove that someone is speeding. Third, how does he know that the LGS doesnt rent out NFA items? If the guy rented the gun from the LGS, will the cop press the issue on the LGS to show proof of the item? 4th, if I recently purchased a NFA item, I actually dont have any form of registration showing ownership, so how could I prove I own something I haven't legally received permission to own?I can shoot while I wait at the range where my item is in jail. Can he confiscate the weapon while waiting on approval? If 5th, here is a gun lawyer stating that, there is no law of having to show ownership to a RSO/LGS.


Think of this, open carrying a gun is a legal act, having a firearm is not illegal. So how can a cop suspect the gun is not registered/legal without first ascertaining that the person is/not able to have a gun? If I call 911 on you and say, there is a man with a gun, thats not illegal. He can stroll by in the unit, see you walking on your way, or waving a sign. He can make contact and check you out. But do you have to ID when you're not charged with a crime? GA's GWCL holders are excused from LEO harassment of wondering if someone who has a gun is legal if being carried. They cant stop me because I'm carrying, they have to have PROOF that I'm illegal to carry. If I get pulled over and a cop see's a gun, how can he say, I need to run the serial number on that firearm to see if its stolen? Just the fact of a firearm being present isnt against the law. If short barrel rifle/shotgun is against the law, how come I can purchase them legally here in Georgia? The short barrel rifle/shotgun isnt illegal, the person who is in possession of the item who ISN'T supposed to have it is illegal or it isnt registered. I like how they used the word "believed", its a subjective word like "discretion" or "opinion". A cop pulled me over YEARS ago trying to say he seen me rolling up a joint and thought I was in possession of marijuana. I said, well sir, is it illegal for me to roll my own cigarette? He said no, so if you see me rolling something in white paper, how did you just KNOW it was marijuana? Didnt have an answer, because he tried to use his "training" as his excuse to try that nonsense, case dismissed.

What "ATF ruling / law" are you referring to?

"So give us an example of an officer developing and obtaining probable cause..."

PROBABLE CAUSE is based on a cop believing that you have broken the law by evaluating all the facts and circumstances of the situation everything known to the cop in any reasonable inferences the cop might make.


The easiest example to think of would be a cop that stopped by a local shooting range just to see what's going on there-- no 911 call brought him there; he's just on patrol.

This cop looks along the firing line and he sees you shooting what looks like a shotgun with a 14 inch barrel and a full shoulder stock.

Cop asks the range counter clerk if the guy in firing lane number four (you) has a short barrel shotgun. The clerk looks and says "yeah I think that's what that is."

Then this cop asks if you the guy in lane #4 (you) have any paperwork to show it's registered legally with the feds. The clerk shrugs and says "I don't know-- we don't ask for that."

At this point, cop has probable cause to believe that you are in possession of a short-barreled shotgun, the possession of which is a crime under Georgia law.
Though having it legally registered with the feds is an affirmative defense, it is not something the cop has to establish the lack of before arresting you.

But, i'm sure any cop would ask before arresting you. And if you say "I don't have to show you any paperwork, cop!
I've got the second amendment on my side. I've got 4th and 5th Amendment rights keep my private information private. I've got IRS tax law on my side. I've got a reasonable expectation of privacy as to treasury related documents....


You can be properly, legally, arrested, With iron clad , crystal clear, probable cause to arrest you for this crime .
 
First off, I'm not arguing with you or looking for confrontation. Learning information is my goal.

snip

that's my understanding of it as well. in this hypothetical situation what is an officer doing (on private property) without being called to it, and giving a person crap for it? there's no PC that what I'm dong is illegal, so he can pound sand. I'm not saying that will happen, I'm saying it's how it's supposed to happen.

I have spoken with officers while carrying NFA. Never asked to see the stamp, but I had a few ask how to do the process as they were not up on it. I always let them shoot it. Often when I explain the difference between a Form 1 and Form 4 they assume they know what I'm talking about and that's the end of it.

I don't OC an SBR with a can in front of a school (even though it's arguably legal based on the stipulation that you can "stay strapped" while picking up kids from school, cause I will beat the rap but I won't beat the ride.
 
Agreed! Not looking for any trouble, but there needs to be a solid line in the sand drawn of what is acceptable and whats not acceptable.

that's my understanding of it as well. in this hypothetical situation what is an officer doing (on private property) without being called to it, and giving a person crap for it? there's no PC that what I'm dong is illegal, so he can pound sand. I'm not saying that will happen, I'm saying it's how it's supposed to happen.

I have spoken with officers while carrying NFA. Never asked to see the stamp, but I had a few ask how to do the process as they were not up on it. I always let them shoot it. Often when I explain the difference between a Form 1 and Form 4 they assume they know what I'm talking about and that's the end of it.

I don't OC an SBR with a can in front of a school (even though it's arguably legal based on the stipulation that you can "stay strapped" while picking up kids from school, cause I will beat the rap but I won't beat the ride.
 
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