Night vision information overload! Help please!

[Emmersom Biggens]

I am going to purchase a set off NV goggles and laser to hog and coyote hunt with. I have done so much on line research that I am confused. Please chime in if you have experience with these systems. I need help with brand and reputable supplier. I want something Gen 3, or 3 plus. I am assuming a PVS-14 and something along the lines of a Steiner DBAL. I will be mounting the laser on a suppressed DD 300 BO (if that matters) I need to stay around $4-5K for both units. Any help is appreciated!!

 

[batoncolle]

1. What type of area are you hunting? Typically it is best to scan with thermal and ID/shoot with NV. But if you're hunting areas with short distances that you know, then you can get by with thermal for double duty of scanning (tripod setup) and shooting. I hunt my own property so I have a rifle with a thermal scope setup on a tripod for easy scanning. I can generally tell the difference between a dog and yote up to about 150 yards, but I have NV if I do need to ID. I don't shoot beyond 200 yards anyway at night, and since I'm on my own property and the only other people that would be there are with me, then I have no problem with scanning with the rifle.
   
2. Do you need NV for navigation, or can you get by with a light? If you need it for navigation, then you'll have to get a PVS-14 or Gen 2+ monocular.
3. I'd get an ATPIAL over a DBAL, as they tend to be more robust from the reviews I've seen. They cost a little more, but you can get into both for $5k or a little less.

Ultimate Night Vision and TNVC are good dealers, and I think TNVC is having a sale right now on their Omni VIIIs.

I will tell you though that unless you're hunting very thick brush, very little will get by you with thermal. And Pulsar has some new thermals coming out right now with better specs and at a lower cost than their existing models.

 

[Big bug]

Stick with a big vendor like TNVC for the night vision because they have generous warranties. The lasers you could do better searching for the milspec stuff online instead of the crappy civilian lasers.

 

[IMaDad]

1. I'd get an ATPIAL over a DBAL, as they tend to be more robust from the reviews I've seen. They cost a little more, but you can get into both for $5k or a little less.

Ultimate Night Vision and TNVC are good dealers, and I think TNVC is having a sale right now on their Omni VIIIs.

1- ATPIALs suck unless you are getting a full octane one. the civilian versions are pretty bad.
2- DBALs are better. A3 is the way to go there, or I2 if you are saving money.
3- BE Meyers MAWL is the absolute best civilian legal IR laser/illuminator available. hands down. bar none. If you arent going to go class IIIb, and you can afford it, get a MAWL.

PS- If you plan on being able to use your NVG setup for defensive/SHTF/people situations then you should really look into dual NVG tubes, and not those cheap digital thermals. And a suppressor.

 

[IMaDad]

Also I highly recommend MOD armory.

 

[BNB]

Have ran a Arma site and Crimson trace rail laser with lots of succes.

 

[batoncolle]

1- ATPIALs suck unless you are getting a full octane one. the civilian versions are pretty bad.
2- DBALs are better. A3 is the way to go there, or I2 if you are saving money.
3- BE Meyers MAWL is the absolute best civilian legal IR laser/illuminator available. hands down. bar none. If you arent going to go class IIIb, and you can afford it, get a MAWL.

PS- If you plan on being able to use your NVG setup for defensive/SHTF/people situations then you should really look into dual NVG tubes, and not those cheap digital thermals. And a suppressor.

Here's a thread on Arfcom where a large dealer confirms that DBALs are returned and fail users at a higher rate than the ATPIAL. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/471080_ATPIAL-C-vs--DBAL-A3-vs--Wilcox-RAPTAR-Lite-ES.html

And the MAWL costs $2,500 so it damn well better the the best available, hands down. Personally I've never found a need to shoot beyond 200 yards at night so it's a huge overkill for me. YMMV.

 

[IMaDad]

Here's a thread on Arfcom where a large dealer confirms that DBALs are returned and fail users at a higher rate than the ATPIAL. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/471080_ATPIAL-C-vs--DBAL-A3-vs--Wilcox-RAPTAR-Lite-ES.html

And the MAWL costs $2,500 so it damn well better the the best available, hands down. Personally I've never found a need to shoot beyond 200 yards at night so it's a huge overkill for me. YMMV.

Different people have different opinions, and I respect them.
I have not met a civilian user of an ATPIAL that liked it over an a3. Also an instructor I train with has said the same on the dbal/atpial failure rate thing.

Personally, I ran an A3 and was really underwhelmed with the illuminator. So I returned it. I have a little IR lasermax on all my rifles, and the laser is just as good as any other class one laser out there. But I'm putting a DBAL I2 (with a leaf) on my SBR (people gun) sot hat I have something more heavy duty. I use a separate LED illuminator that is like 100x an A3 so I'm not worried about it.

Also the MAWL isnt just about range. its the interface, the lo profile mount, the interface/switchology, its ambidextrous. it just does every single thing better. Everyone agrees too.

 

[batoncolle]

Different people have different opinions, and I respect them.
I have not met a civilian user of an ATPIAL that liked it over an a3. Also an instructor I train with has said the same on the dbal/atpial failure rate thing.

Personally, I ran an A3 and was really underwhelmed with the illuminator. So I returned it. I have a little IR lasermax on all my rifles, and the laser is just as good as any other class one laser out there. But I'm putting a DBAL I2 (with a leaf) on my SBR (people gun) sot hat I have something more heavy duty. I use a separate LED illuminator that is like 100x an A3 so I'm not worried about it.

Also the MAWL isnt just about range. its the interface, the lo profile mount, the interface/switchology, its ambidextrous. it just does every single thing better. Everyone agrees too.

I actually prefer the little Lasermax. It's easily good to 100 yards for the few times I might use a laser. And yes the MAWL has a nice list of features, but when it comes to range, nothing else on the market can compare.

I just personally have never found a need for laser use at any significant range. I prefer thermal, and that is good for me to ID out to 150 - 200 yards which is the farthest I shoot at night. I only use NV to navigate unknown areas or to occasionally ID a critter at distance. I use a laser for up close shooting of critters.

 

[IMaDad]

I actually prefer the little Lasermax. It's easily good to 100 yards for the few times I might use a laser. And yes the MAWL has a nice list of features, but when it comes to range, nothing else on the market can compare.

I just personally have never found a need for laser use at any significant range. I prefer thermal, and that is good for me to ID out to 150 - 200 yards which is the farthest I shoot at night. I only use NV to navigate unknown areas or to occasionally ID a critter at distance. I use a laser for up close shooting of critters.

Nothing on the market can compare to what? The MAWL actually has the furthest reaching class 1 illuminator (that is laser based, I believe)

I use an IR laser all the time when I'm shooting/moving. but then again Im doing defensive shooting drills and not hunting so much. I'm not sure how you could fight without one under NVG. I mean even hunting, if you are moving, a pair of tubes and a laser on the rifle is light years better than anything mounted to the rifle.

Either way. I mean none of them are bad systems.

The lasermax works great but Its not sturdy enough for me. the adjustments suck. and battery replacement stinks too. you need tools for everything. etc.
but for the money, thats what I have on most of my AR's.