Forward Assist Needed in an Urban Environment?

[BigMike]

Not very exciting but I remember in carbine challenge for bragging rights folks getting first round click instead of bang on the buzzer from no round chambered. Not fully seating the mag caused the bolt to miss the top round. No press check to make sure.

 

[cmshoot]

Not very exciting but I remember in carbine challenge for bragging rights folks getting first round click instead of bang on the buzzer from no round chambered. Not fully seating the mag caused the bolt to miss the top round. No press check to make sure.

Yep. Seen that one a lot.

During my courses I stress INSERT - TUG DOWN during any type of reload. The TUG DOWN ensures that the mag is fully seated.

The Marine Corps got away from the “slap the bottom of the magazine” around late 1994, and mandated INSERT - TUG DOWN instead. They had found slapping the bottom of the mag could cause issues when reloading with the bolt locked to the rear. In some instances, especially with the worn out aluminum mags we used back then, slapping the bottom of the magazine to fully insert while the bolt was locked to the rear, would cause 1 or more rounds to jump out of the magazine. This was due to feed lips becoming spread or cracked from use. You’d hit the bolt release, and the bolt would try to feed 2 or more rounds into the chamber.

INSERT

TUG DOWN

BOLT RELEASE or RACK (if applicable)

PRESS CHECK

FORWARD ASSIST

Now you’re 100% sure that you’re mag is correctly seated, and you have a round chambered.

Of course, this isn’t what I’d do if I were reloading under fire, or needing to do it quickly. In those instances, it would be the first 3 steps, and skip the last two.

When I’m all done engaging, I’ll scan for additional threats, then assess by weapon status, which would be the last 2 steps.

 

[steviesterno]

Yep. Seen that one a lot.

During my courses I stress INSERT - TUG DOWN during any type of reload. The TUG DOWN ensures that the mag is fully seated.

The Marine Corps got away from the “slap the bottom of the magazine” around late 1994, and mandated INSERT - TUG DOWN instead. They had found slapping the bottom of the mag could cause issues when reloading with the bolt locked to the rear. In some instances, especially with the worn out aluminum mags we used back then, slapping the bottom of the magazine to fully insert while the bolt was locked to the rear, would cause 1 or more rounds to jump out of the magazine. This was due to feed lips becoming spread or cracked from use. You’d hit the bolt release, and the bolt would try to feed 2 or more rounds into the chamber.

INSERT

TUG DOWN

BOLT RELEASE or RACK (if applicable)

PRESS CHECK

FORWARD ASSIST

Now you’re 100% sure that you’re mag is correctly seated, and you have a round chambered.

Of course, this isn’t what I’d do if I were reloading under fire, or needing to do it quickly. In those instances, it would be the first 3 steps, and skip the last two.

When I’m all done engaging, I’ll scan for additional threats, then assess by weapon status, which would be the last 2 steps.

I treat my guns worse than my dick. Slap it, tug it, sometimes no lube.

nothing worse than a click and the mag falls out after the buzzer, besides the same thing on a 2 way range

 

[cmshoot]

I treat my guns worse than my dick. Slap it, tug it, sometimes no lube.

nothing worse than a click and the mag falls out after the buzzer, besides the same thing on a 2 way range

Worse than a mag falling out is having 3 or 4 rounds crammed into the feed way, which is what can happen when you slap the crap out of your magazines, when a simple tug will accomplish the same task.

I was a Small Arms Instructor in the Corps when they made the change from SLAP to TUG. I switched to TUG, been doing it that way since 1994, and have never had a mag fall out.

But, hey, what does the United States Marine Corps know about fighting with an M16…………

 

[BigMike]

Yep. Seen that one a lot.

During my courses I stress INSERT - TUG DOWN during any type of reload. The TUG DOWN ensures that the mag is fully seated.

The Marine Corps got away from the “slap the bottom of the magazine” around late 1994, and mandated INSERT - TUG DOWN instead. They had found slapping the bottom of the mag could cause issues when reloading with the bolt locked to the rear. In some instances, especially with the worn out aluminum mags we used back then, slapping the bottom of the magazine to fully insert while the bolt was locked to the rear, would cause 1 or more rounds to jump out of the magazine. This was due to feed lips becoming spread or cracked from use. You’d hit the bolt release, and the bolt would try to feed 2 or more rounds into the chamber.

INSERT

TUG DOWN

BOLT RELEASE or RACK (if applicable)

PRESS CHECK

FORWARD ASSIST

Now you’re 100% sure that you’re mag is correctly seated, and you have a round chambered.

Of course, this isn’t what I’d do if I were reloading under fire, or needing to do it quickly. In those instances, it would be the first 3 steps, and skip the last two.

When I’m all done engaging, I’ll scan for additional threats, then assess by weapon status, which would be the last 2 steps.

Piggy back question on step 3 here. What's proper/taught on loading from empty? Lock the bolt to the rear, push pull, release: or push pull rack?

 

[cmshoot]

Piggy back question on step 3 here. What's proper/taught on loading from empty? Lock the bolt to the rear, push pull, release: or push pull rack?

Are you talking about an initial load, or reloading the gun immediately after it has run empty?

 

[BigMike]

Are you talking about an initial load, or reloading the gun immediately after it has run empty?

Initial load.

 

[steviesterno]

Worse than a mag falling out is having 3 or 4 rounds crammed into the feed way, which is what can happen when you slap the crap out of your magazines, when a simple tug will accomplish the same task.

I was a Small Arms Instructor in the Corps when they made the change from SLAP to TUG. I switched to TUG, been doing it that way since 1994, and have never had a mag fall out.

But, hey, what does the United States Marine Corps know about fighting with an M16…………

I was just trying to make a dick joke :-/

i do what you’re talking about. Make the mag click in, try and pull it out. Looking back I could have made a pull out joke instead. I’ll work on it.

 

[cmshoot]

Initial load.

I will lock the bolt to the rear first, as it allows me to examine the chamber and feedway for anything that I don’t want there. After that it’s:

INSERT

TUG DOWN

BOLT RELEASE

PRESS CHECK

FORWARD ASSIST


An alternate method that I teach is to look at your magazine BEFORE you insert it, and look at which side the top round is on. For instance, say that the top round is on the left. Then it’s:

INSERT

BOLT RELEASE

REMOVE MAGAZINE

EXAMINE (look to make sure that the top round in the magazine is now on the right side)

RE-INSERT

TUG DOWN

No reason to press check now, as we verified that the top round switched from one side to the other.

This is a method that I would use for initial loading only.

 

[Shotgun Surgery]

How do you know that you have a round chambered? Just because you racked the slide or bolt, or fired a round, does not mean that there is currently a round chambered. I’ve seen it happen hundreds, if not thousands, of times.

Also, the slide or bolt doesn’t always lock open after firing the last round. How do you know for 100% sure that you have a round chambered? You press check.

I keep my guns loaded. I don't constantly unload and re-load them. When I drop the slide, I can check the magazine to see if a round chambered.

Unless your gun was plausibly in someone else's possession while you weren't around and maybe they unloaded the gun for whatever reason, why would you suddenly assume your previously loaded gun is now unloaded?