Contact the ATF to keep pistol braces legal (merged threads)

[CTS Tactical]

How do you think the ATF determined my intent when I bought a brace?

Wow really? That is precisely what the letter is about. How they will make that judgement. And once you are in front of the judge and jury all that really matters is what they can make the jury believe.
A friend of mine got an email from the ATF with a copy of the letter because he bought an SB A3 brace online and they tracked him through his online purchace.

 

[Bandwidth]

I guess that a lot of this is conjecture and assumptions... but in the end what I am hearing is that IF this goes forward, many of the braces, will be illegal because they were never really submitted and approved to begin with. My SBA3, is a prime example. Adjustable, fits on a standard rifle buffer tube...

So I ordered a 16" barrel and will just pop off the SBA3 and toss on a spare M4 or Magpul stock and be done with it... In my mind I knew this day was coming, that shouldering a brace was something that was being allowed for a time, but that the "loophole" would be closed at some point...

So I will just convert my only pistol to a rifle and call it a day, and start writing Representatives about getting the NFA itself modified, as that is the root cause of all this crap.

We took whatever scraps they offered us with regards to these loopholes, interpreted them the way that we wanted to, and never tackled the actual problem, the NFA.

Now it's biting us in the ass...

Wrong. It will be a case by case basis in which the ATF uses ambiguous and dubious undefined parameters to decide whether or not you've broken the law. Braces won't be "illegal", you could put one on a rifle for instance, or on a handgun if you meet the ATF's secret design parameters. Sounds great right!

 

[Bandwidth]

Wow really? That is what the letter is about. How they will make that judgement. And once you are in front of the judge and jury all that really matters is what they can make the jury believe.

Really! Does this letter clearly define how those judgements will be made, or is it a manifesto of ignorant, ambiguous, anti-gun hog**** aimed at making innocent people felons while dong ZERO to curb crime?

It's that cuntbag Regina Lombardo, flexing on gun owners telling them how she intends to use the upcoming administration's disinterest (as well as this one's) to have the ATF run rampant on our rights using open ended, undefined parameters for targeting gun owners and further eroding our rights.

 

[CTS Tactical]

Really! Does this letter clearly define how those judgements will be made, or is it a manifesto of ignorant, ambiguous, anti-gun hog**** aimed at making innocent people felons while dong ZERO to curb crime?

It's that cuntbag Regina Lombardo, flexing on gun owners telling them how she intends to use the upcoming administration's disinterest (as well as this one's) to have the ATF run rampant on our rights using open ended, undefined parameters for targeting gun owners and further eroding our rights.

You are obviously the expert. Believe what ever makes you happy.

 

[Bandwidth]

You are obviously the expert (on everything). Believe what ever makes you happy.

I'd love to hear something other than conjecture out of you. Can you point to one clearly defined example of how the ATF intends to classify braces based on (XYZ) variables?

 

[SirBannedAlot]

Right on the money on most of it. As for the highlighted area, Shouldering a brace was never allowed. It was never said (by anyone in authority) that it was OK to build a pistol with a brace with the intent to shoulder it. There were many businesses and youtubers out their who were either unscrupulous or ignorant of the facts telling you that is what the letter meant and it wasn't true. If you build a pistol with a brace intending to shoot it with one hand as is was designed to do and inadvertantly stuck it to your shoulder and fired it then you were ok. If you built you pistol with a brace intending to shoot it from the shoulder then you built an SBR and it was never allowed. Never legal. That is where much of the problem lies. So many manufacturers were putting out videos and telling people that the ATF said it was OK to shoulder your pistol brace and it was never true. They were more interested in making a quick buck than they were with being honest about the laws. Either that or they were ignorant and misunderstood the laws themselves in which case they really should have kept their mouths shut.

Yes, agreed. The problem is intent. Because most people here will not fess up and admit that they bought or built a pistol with the intent to fire it from the shoulder. They will play the semantics game all day long... but like I said earlier. Nobody builds a 10.5" pistol, adds a brace, AFG, magnified optic, backup irons, tactical light, etc...
Or how about a sling? What's the point of a sling, for a "pistol" that is supposed to be strapped to your arm? haha

I admit, I played within the guidelines that everyone online was saying... the so-called experts...

I can see where this is headed and so I just said fuggit, removed the brace and a barrel will be here on Thursday for me to convert to a rifle and not worry about it.

I was tempted to just register it as an SBR and keep the short barrel and toss a stock on it... But what's the point? The hassle and registration to save 5" of barrel? Meh, not worth it, for me at least...

 

[SirBannedAlot]

You are obviously the expert. Believe what ever makes you happy.

Guessing you are arguing with someone I have on my rather long ignore list. haha

Who is it?

 

[Bandwidth]

Yes, agreed. The problem is intent. Because most people here will not fess up and admit that they bought or built a pistol with the intent to fire it from the shoulder. They will play the semantics game all day long... but like I said earlier. Nobody builds a 10.5" pistol, adds a brace, AFG, magnified optic, backup irons, tactical light, etc...
Or how about a sling? What's the point of a sling, for a "pistol" that is supposed to be strapped to your arm? haha

I admit, I played within the guidelines that everyone online was saying... the so-called experts...

I can see where this is headed and so I just said fuggit, removed the brace and a barrel will be here on Thursday for me to convert to a rifle and not worry about it.

I was tempted to just register it as an SBR and keep the short barrel and toss a stock on it... But what's the point? The hassle and registration to save 5" of barrel? Meh, not worth it, for me at least...

Into the cattle car buddy.

**** the ATF. **** them right in the ****ing face.

 

[CQB27]

Right on the money on most of it. As for the highlighted area, Shouldering a brace was never allowed. It was never said (by anyone in authority) that it was OK to build a pistol with a brace with the intent to shoulder it. There were many businesses and youtubers out their who were either unscrupulous or ignorant of the facts telling you that is what the letter meant and it wasn't true. If you build a pistol with a brace intending to shoot it with one hand as is was designed to do and inadvertantly stuck it to your shoulder and fired it then you were ok. If you built you pistol with a brace intending to shoot it from the shoulder then you built an SBR and it was never allowed. Never legal. That is where much of the problem lies. So many manufacturers were putting out videos and telling people that the ATF said it was OK to shoulder your pistol brace and it was never true. They were more interested in making a quick buck than they were with being honest about the laws. Either that or they were ignorant and misunderstood the laws themselves in which case they really should have kept their mouths shut.

Hmmmm.....About two months ago I was at a firearms instructor conference and I sat through a BATF lecture, given By a BATF Agent/Lawyer from their legal division, on dealing with SBRs, SBSs, AOWs, Firearms (shockwaves et al) and Braced Pistols vs their their illegal counterparts the saw-offed rifles/shotguns . He very clearly stated the BATF looks at the intended design of the brace to determine legality, not how it is used by the end user and the BATF doesn't considering shouldering a braced pistol illegal under any circumstance.

 

[300_whisper]

Into the cattle car buddy.

**** the ATF. **** them right in the ****ing face.

lol....