too late to read all this, but I have a few pre-1968 firearms that do not have a serial number. Have bought them in person, off GunBroker and elsewhere. When required, they went thru a 4473 and an FFL, no problem.
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Buying a gun without a serial number
- Thread starter jbbear6002
- Start date
It depends on what your meaning is. If you are saying it is illegal to make a gun and to sell the gun, that's not really correct. It is illegal to make a gun with the intention of selling the gun and then sell it. What is not illegal is to make a gun and later decide to sell it. There is no magic number, but the more you make and sell, the more it looks like you made them with the intent to sell them.
Of course, if you are an unlicensed manufacturer, that does not bear directly on whether you put serial numbers on. Your prosecution would be for being an unlicensed manufacturer.
I haven't read all the posts, but if the gun was manufactured prior to the gun control act of 1968, serial numbers were not required by the BATFE. That said, most guns DID have serial numbers; it was only the cheaper guns (such as some .22s) that had this step in the manufacturing process omitted. These guns would have 'PRE GCA' in the serial number field of our gun log. We destroyed MANY guns with altered or removed serial numbers, some of which were very nice.
I have had a couple of old shotguns (Meriden and an 1897 Win) transferred into Governors from an out of state FFL and neither had serial numbers. No one seemed too concerned and it wasn't an issue
I have a few Winchester model 37 and none have #s on them. I see some for sale that have info added -- Social Security etc. I guess in case they get stolen As a. collector piece it sure hurts the value.
I have a relatively high dollar custom rifle that has no serial number. Being as it's a one off, I'm not sure how you can prove it's a pre-68 gun.
I' ve been informed that "back in the day" custom gun makers did not use serial numbers because it was "common." Their imprint is what identified the gun.
I just ran into this kind of thing with a Savage 1907 pistol I bought off Gunbroker. I'm trying to get a collection of these together, and this one was a good example at a good price. I won the auction and had it shipped to me on my C&R.
When I went to put it in my bound book, I couldn't find the serial number in it's usual spot under the barrel. Looking at the paperwork the seller had listed it as 'no serial number' in the bill of sale. I broke out a magnifying glass and found I could just see a little bit of two numerals in the standard location, and a lot of file marks.
I called the seller and he honestly thought it was too early to have a serial number so he sold it to me that way. Interestingly, he was selling it for a widow of a member of his gun club, and the owner always carried this pistol when he flew as an airline pilot (pre-9/11 I'm guessing). The seller thought he'd purchased it as a young man (they were sold into the 30s) and probably removed the SN himself.
Anyway, I ended up doing some research on this, and as mentioned above, there's no need to add a serial number to a pre-68 gun that never had one and it's perfectly legal to own a gun without a serial number if it was before one was required.
However... If it had a serial number from the factory it's a felony to remove it, and also federal crime to posses a gun with a defaced or removed serial number.
I ended up getting a partial refund from the buyer, and keeping all the parts except the frame itself which I turned in to Smyrna PD for destruction. I figure the parts may come in handy as I get more of these old pistols, and at worst I can sell them to someone who may need them down the road.
When I went to put it in my bound book, I couldn't find the serial number in it's usual spot under the barrel. Looking at the paperwork the seller had listed it as 'no serial number' in the bill of sale. I broke out a magnifying glass and found I could just see a little bit of two numerals in the standard location, and a lot of file marks.
I called the seller and he honestly thought it was too early to have a serial number so he sold it to me that way. Interestingly, he was selling it for a widow of a member of his gun club, and the owner always carried this pistol when he flew as an airline pilot (pre-9/11 I'm guessing). The seller thought he'd purchased it as a young man (they were sold into the 30s) and probably removed the SN himself.
Anyway, I ended up doing some research on this, and as mentioned above, there's no need to add a serial number to a pre-68 gun that never had one and it's perfectly legal to own a gun without a serial number if it was before one was required.
However... If it had a serial number from the factory it's a felony to remove it, and also federal crime to posses a gun with a defaced or removed serial number.
I ended up getting a partial refund from the buyer, and keeping all the parts except the frame itself which I turned in to Smyrna PD for destruction. I figure the parts may come in handy as I get more of these old pistols, and at worst I can sell them to someone who may need them down the road.
This has nothing to do with personally owned firearms.
There are obviously some people in the USA that will jeopardize their businesses over 6 grand, but it ain’t going to be me. Slightly related story: I had a guy come in that had an old briefcase with two revolvers concealed inside that were operated by squeezing the briefcase handle. He wanted to know how much it was worth, and I told him that it wasn’t worth anything and he should turn it over to the BATFE. He turned to leave, and got stopped at the door by an undercover agent and had it confiscated on the spot. Was it an attempt at a setup? Maybe, maybe not. I never asked.
