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ODT Gun Show & Swap Meet - May 4, 2024! - Click here for info
Appleseed -Canton, GA, March 7-8, 2020
- Thread starter iamgone
- Start date
I have a few kids who might come. Only a few miles from me. This event would be a great time to check anyone's S&W 15/22 for the headspace issue by using the gauge. i've never seen one that failed but it was an issue with a small number of 15/22's.
I’m going to guess and say the answer is that the act of checking (or not checking) places liability on Appleseed.
Should know status soon. I’ll ask.
We can squirrel up loaners, I feel certain.
Here is the official position from Appleseed’s Leadership.
Appleseed does not train our instructors to repair and/or maintain firearms. If we act as a gunsmith or armorer, we step outside of our area of expertise. This exposes the organization to unnecessary risk and our insurance does not cover it.
We intend to investigate further, and will make attempts to reach out to Smith and Wesson. However, at this time, there is NO CHANGE to our policy. The ban remains in force.
Appleseed does not train our instructors to repair and/or maintain firearms. If we act as a gunsmith or armorer, we step outside of our area of expertise. This exposes the organization to unnecessary risk and our insurance does not cover it.
We intend to investigate further, and will make attempts to reach out to Smith and Wesson. However, at this time, there is NO CHANGE to our policy. The ban remains in force.
It isn’t just Appleseed that has concerns.
UPDATE: Important Equipment Safety Concern
****UPDATE: SAFETY CONCERN****
Additional information on the safety concern posted previously. First, we thank everyone who has reached out to us and have explained the issues they have personally witnessed. If I had known all this information earlier, this action would have been taken a quite a while ago. As I now understand it there are three issues our teams and coaches have witnessed.
1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.
2. The bolt space issue subject to the safety alert we shared from S&W. When the alert was released we spoke to the company and were advised this would correct the out of battery issue, as well as an issue with the firearm firing repeatedly as the bolt closes.
3. Firearm firing out of battery.
Plan of action to address concerns:
1. This was witnessed by a coach at an SASP practice. It is my understanding that if we required anti walk trigger pins, this issue would be resolved.
2. It is my understanding that the repeated fire will be fixed by confirming that the spacing is proper with the gauge provided by S&W.
3. Although we were informed this would have been corrected by checking the space with the gauge, it has not. At a SASP State match, a S&W M&P 15-22 fired out of battery, luckily only causing very minor injury to a safety officer. That firearm had, and has again been checked, and passes inspection with the gauge. We have reached out multiple times and left messages with multiple people at S&W to contact us. After no responses from S&W, for the safety of everyone in our program, we sent out the directive to temporarily stop using the firearm in our program. Staff reached out twice on Friday to S&W Customer Service and both times, after a little over 20 minutes on hold, our call was disconnected by S&W without us being able to speak to anyone.
At this point, until we can be assured by S&W that this safety issue is something specific to this one firearm, under no circumstance is this firearm allowed to be used in ANY SASP practice or events.
At no time will SASP compromise when it comes to the safety of the participants in our program.
Respectfully,
National Director, SASP
About the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation
The Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation (SSSF) is 501(c)(3) public charity responsible for all aspects of the Scholastic Clay Target Program (SCTP) and Scholastic Action Shooting Program (SASP) across the United States. SCTP and SASP are youth development programs in which adult coaches and other volunteers use shooting sports to teach and to demonstrate sportsmanship, responsibility, honesty, ethics, integrity, teamwork, and other positive life skills.
For more information about SSSF, visit www.sssfonline.org
UPDATE: Important Equipment Safety Concern
****UPDATE: SAFETY CONCERN****
Additional information on the safety concern posted previously. First, we thank everyone who has reached out to us and have explained the issues they have personally witnessed. If I had known all this information earlier, this action would have been taken a quite a while ago. As I now understand it there are three issues our teams and coaches have witnessed.
1. The trigger pin walking out causing the firearm to go full auto, emptying the magazine.
2. The bolt space issue subject to the safety alert we shared from S&W. When the alert was released we spoke to the company and were advised this would correct the out of battery issue, as well as an issue with the firearm firing repeatedly as the bolt closes.
3. Firearm firing out of battery.
Plan of action to address concerns:
1. This was witnessed by a coach at an SASP practice. It is my understanding that if we required anti walk trigger pins, this issue would be resolved.
2. It is my understanding that the repeated fire will be fixed by confirming that the spacing is proper with the gauge provided by S&W.
3. Although we were informed this would have been corrected by checking the space with the gauge, it has not. At a SASP State match, a S&W M&P 15-22 fired out of battery, luckily only causing very minor injury to a safety officer. That firearm had, and has again been checked, and passes inspection with the gauge. We have reached out multiple times and left messages with multiple people at S&W to contact us. After no responses from S&W, for the safety of everyone in our program, we sent out the directive to temporarily stop using the firearm in our program. Staff reached out twice on Friday to S&W Customer Service and both times, after a little over 20 minutes on hold, our call was disconnected by S&W without us being able to speak to anyone.
At this point, until we can be assured by S&W that this safety issue is something specific to this one firearm, under no circumstance is this firearm allowed to be used in ANY SASP practice or events.
At no time will SASP compromise when it comes to the safety of the participants in our program.
Respectfully,
National Director, SASP
About the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation
The Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation (SSSF) is 501(c)(3) public charity responsible for all aspects of the Scholastic Clay Target Program (SCTP) and Scholastic Action Shooting Program (SASP) across the United States. SCTP and SASP are youth development programs in which adult coaches and other volunteers use shooting sports to teach and to demonstrate sportsmanship, responsibility, honesty, ethics, integrity, teamwork, and other positive life skills.
For more information about SSSF, visit www.sssfonline.org
